Frank Guzman, Oral history interview transcription.

Interviews
Puerto Ricans--New Jersey
Oral history

A transcription of the oral history interview conducted with Frank Guzman.

Christopher López.

Interview conducted on Thursday, June, 27, 2024.

Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection.

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See "Ray Guzman, Oral history interview transcription.," https://puertoricanexperienceinhoboken.omeka.net/items/show/20

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English

Oral history (transcription)

1950s through 1980s

Frank: I think my father mentioned one time that he needed to get on with his life. He needed to make money and in Puerto Rico you couldn't make money. My father came here in 1950. I believe it was 55 maybe or 56 they moved to Hammonton. My sister was born in Hammonton. I was born in Somers Point. But we were living in Atlantic City at the time, but Atlantic City didn't have a maternity hospital. So they shipped my mother out to Somers Point, New Jersey which was the neighboring town. My mom gave birth to me there in Somers Point and then six months later, my father came to Hoboken.

Chris: Why did he come to Hoboken?

Frank: I want to say he was looking for a better place to stay. We had maybe a little family here.
My father, well, he had relatives in Atlantic City, my mother's sister lived there. We had family in Brooklyn, down in Flatbush, and Ditmars was my father's two sisters. And when we came to Hoboken, one of the first places that I remember living on it was on second and River Street where it's all brand new now.

Chris: How old were you when you came?

Frank: I was six months old. My father grabbed me and my sister and we moved here. I went to all the school systems in the city of Hoboken. I went to David Rue School, which was on third and Park Avenue. From David Rue school, I went to number eight school, which was Sadie F. Leinkauf. When I was, we were moving again, and then I went to number 8 school. From seventh grade to ninth grade I went to Joseph F. Brandt school on ninth and park. And then I went to Hoboken High School from 73 to 76 on eighth and Clinton where I grew up on 715 Clinton Street for many years before we got gentrificated out to the projects. My mother was affected by that. A real estate agent came to my mom's house without, we weren't home, my mom was alone. My father was working, we were at school. And he said to my mother, you know, you gotta move. My mother started crying she says what are you talking about? He says, you got to move we’re selling the building. Just move and I came home from school and saw my mother crying. This guy said, We got to move. So I ran downstairs, I saw the guy come out of the house and I said, what are you doing messing with my mom? He goes, shut up kid, you got to move that's the bottom line. Of course, I got a little verbally abusive, but I was only like 13, 14 years old. And he was an adult already. I still see him around. I want to, every time I see him I want to punch him in the head. But, you know, they threw us down, well, they didn't throw us down to the projects. My mother had a comadre, my sister's godmother who sponsored a confirmation and she said listen, I got no place to stay. I gotta move from Clinton street, can you take care of my boys? And will give me whatever you need. She goes, I'll take care of the boys but I ain't taking the girls because I got five boys on my own. There was eight guys in one apartment, in the projects. We grew up together for a couple, I want to say about a year, close to a year. So, you know, we made it, you know, and then we got to an apartment in the projects. We lived at 310 with them and 311 was connected so we got 311 on the seventh floor.

Chris: In Clinton growing up there was a lot of Puerto Ricans where you were at?

Frank: I remember growing up in Hoboken. I want to say 63% of Hoboken was Hispanic. My era growing up in Hoboken in that time was the best years that I believe any child could grown up in. Kids don't know today about 1, 2, 3 red light, Johnny and the Pony, Hot Pizza and Butter, Horse, Marbles, spinning the top, bottle caps in the middle of the street. I used to play handball at 10th Street Park, basketball at 10th Street Park. Hoboken’s a square mile. You really can't get lost once you get acclimated with it. I remember as a kid trying to go to the YMCA, which is on 13 and Washington, where my old firehouse is at and I got lost. I still remember the lamp posts, like a column of two jockeys one on each post holding a lantern. This guy was German and he was a very, I don't know if I'm using the word right but a repressed man. He was very nasty. So I remember going on the stand and he was like, what are you doing here this is my house? I said, I'm lost. I was crying, I was probably around 10 or 11 years old. And I remember finding the YMCA and I remember like saying how am I gonna get home? I don't know how to get home. And I don't remember how I got home but I remember, I got home and I never told my father nothing about what happened.. But you know, once you got that one experience you learned where you were at. And I was always vigilant of what street I was on. So I know where I could walk.

Chris: What do you mean that you could walk or you can't walk in because back then there were places where you couldn't go?

Frank: You had certain areas that were hotspots that you had better not got caught in as a kid because people will judge you.

Chris: How?

Frank: You know you're guilty by association (chuckles)?

Chris: It’s because you were brown (laughs)

Frank: I don't know if it was specifically that. I mean, for the most part with my friends, We never really had any bad racial issues. But I'll tell you a story that happened right here in this park (Church Square Park) with my sister. It was the Italians against the Puerto Ricans. Something started, there was a guy on a motorcycle and had a girl in the back. She was Puerto Rican. The guy said something and something transpired between the two races. The animosity escalated. Okay, so now it became wherever you saw Italians or wherever you saw Puerto Ricans there was gonna be an issue. So we had the National Guard come into Hoboken.

Chris: Are you talking about the riots?

Frank: Yeah the riots, it was bad. My sister I forgot who she was with at this park, the Italians were coming from that side and the Boricuas were coming from this side. They were getting closer and closer together and the cops were out all over. So my sister was frantic because she saw the escalation getting out of control. And she was paranoid, and then the cops pulled her and some other people out, thank God. My sister was never the same again. She was always frantic, always paranoid, always scared.

Chris: Because she saw the violence?

Frank: Because she experienced that and she was never the same after that.

Frank: My friends, we grew up together. Irish, German, Italian. And it wasn't a racial thing with us. It was a racist thing with the older folks. Caucasian folks used to tell their children don't hang out with him because he’s Puerto Rican or don't hang out with him because he’s black. And to me, they were more at fault at presenting racism, than we were at fault for accepting the racism. We had to accept it because we had no choice. But my friends we had a world of nationalities. We never had that issue where we had to hide from each other. The racism was mostly in the closet but then it started getting really bad.

Chris: When did you notice it getting bad?

Frank: I think just before the gentrification started I started seeing more racism in schools. Segregation, clicks, maybe gangs back in the day. But they were older adults, older tennagers, they used to wear colors. Seeing it was a different perspective because you had people that will not show that they were racist, but deep down inside in their hearts they were. I mean, I've dealt with it numerous times, but I've never took a back seat to it. I’d say listen, I bleed the same color blood and breathe the same air you do. So it didn't become a struggle, it became more of an understanding. But I didn't allow myself to be shut down from whatever others were privileged to do. And I felt well if you can do it, I can do it.

Chris: Were you the first Latino fireman?

Frank: No, the first latino fireman was Felix Santiago he lives down here at Church Towers. I admired him a lot because when I was a kid I used to watch him and he was always running into buildings without no Scott Bottle. Very little gear on, would go in with a handkerchief. He would go into the building and would come out with somebody. This was back in the 60s, early 70s. I just saw my captain right now sitting outside. Captain Frank Wallington. He was a man that knew his shit. We had a fire in that building right there. I was on a job for maybe a year. Heavy black smoke. I say, hey cap I see you going in there without a bottle? He says, You want to learn how to be a smoke eater? I said yeah, he goes, take a deep breath and follow me. He says, you okay? I said yeah, and he said now, let go of your breath and take a deep breath with the smoke. And I did. I was eating my mocos (snot), I was gagging, coughing. But after a while. I wasn't doing none of that, I was walking in and out. And I learned that from him. He was an original smoke eater. My biggest thing is when I became a fireman I came in where, the old-timers were there. They were experienced. I learned their style of work ethic in the fire field. Because they were go-getters you know, they didn't hide. They were workers and you worked together as a team. And I was glad that I was raised in that time because these guys taught me how to be a fireman. Beside me asking 25,000 questions you know they were old timers and I was a baby. I was 26 years old when I became a fireman. All the other guys were in their 50s. I learned the pumps first by the high school on 8th and Clinton and that's the rescue 04 engine, which used to be the 06 engine. I remember standing in the back of the fire truck in 1985 bouncing down the street in the back of the fire truck holding onto the sides and I would say, my knees are killing me. They would say, hey kid, when you go in the back and you're standing in the back, you gotta go with the flow. If you bend your knee, the bumps get smoother.

Chris: You’ve told me the story before about how you became a fireman. Can you tell me the story again?

Frank: Oh, the story about the application? Well, I went to get an application to take the firemans test and unfortunately, when I went, there was no application.

Chris: Were there really no applications?

Frank: My suspicion was, in the fire department, you looked at your family, first and foremost, of course. So for me, ,in my personal opinion, they were holding the applications for their families or friends or relatives, what have you. So one day, I came out my house, my mom wanted me to get something from finest (supermarket), which was right across the street from high school which I had to pass a firehouse that when I first came on the job, that's where I was first assigned to. Kind of ironic. When I came out the house, I looked up and said, Oh shit there's a fire in Hoboken. Heavy billowing black smoke from downtown. Now I'm in middle-town, so I could see the smoke dense, it was bad. So I went down the stairs, and made my right hand turn to go towards the High School, which is on Eighth and Clinton. And as I passed the firehouse, the door was open. I said, Oh, shit, the firemen left their door open. So I said, hey let me see if there's an application in the watch booth. So I walked in, there was nobody there, I said, Hello, Hello, nobody was there. I walked in the booth and I saw a pack of yellow paper. And so I took one out and it was the application for the fire department. I could have been selfish and taken the whole pack and went and told my friends, Hey, I got the fireman's application, but I wasn't of that nature. I grabbed one application and put it in my back pocket. went to find this. I went back home and filled the application and sent it in. Back then we didn't have to pay for applications. Now the applications are 35 dollars. So I took the test a couple of months later, I received the civil service notice that I'm taking the test. I believe that was, I want to say 82.

Frank: November 13 1985 I became a fireman. And only because Cappiello and Tom Vezzetti were running for mayor. Now, what happened was, we had to go to through that minority quota in the city of Hoboken. And we didn't have that one extra guy so we didn't meet the quota. It had to be either a Hispanic or Black to meet the quota mandated by the state. So I ended up not getting made and we had to go to court. And I started to lose it because I was very upset. I had already taken the test, I passed and came out 26 on the list. And we had to go to court with Judge Sorokin, who was a very angry judge to me at the time, But you know, it was a minority issue and you know, he wanted to know what was going on. Why are we over here in court over a job if there's already a list that was made. Well the thing was that a quota had to be met and they needed another another Hispanic or black body to meet the quota. Us not being on that list is literally why they fought for us to become firefighters.

Chris: Who fought for you?

Frank: These attorneys which I recall were union attorneys.The judge called in the council and it was kind of scary in the beginning because I said, you know, are we going to make it or not. So from June, we went to court and we lost the case.Then I was wandering around the city in the rain one day. I had just lost my then girlfriend at the time, I lost my apartment and my job. But I was kind of depressed and as I'm walking through sixth and Jefferson or Monroe. So I remember coming up one day and saw Tommy Vezzetti and he said to me, if I win this election, you're going to be a fireman. And I promise you I’ll keep my word. Tommy Vezzetti won the election in November, we won our appeal and he made his firefighters.

Chris: Who’s us?

Frank: There were 13 of us. They made us and we got sworn in on November 13 1985. I'm still trying to find pictures from that. And I can't find the pictures from when I got promoted. And somebody's got them out there but you know I lost a lot of pictures that my son had and he I think what happened was he got rid of a box not knowing that had those treasures in there. And especially the plaque there my mom and my dad gave me when I got promoted to captain. It was a, I still think about that plaque now because that was a gift that my mom and my dad gave me and I never got a chance to put it on the wall.

Frank: It was a very precarious upbringing in Hoboken with Hispanics and the rest of the world around us, you know, but I learned a lot. I learned how to be respectful. I learned how to be understanding. I learned how not to be judging people because being judgmental in our society today its not something that you want to be. There's too much animosity in this world and children today don't have the upbringing that we had. I think they feel like they're more privileged than we were back in the days because of their upbringing because of
like we used to call it back in the day the Silver Spoon. I never tried to be anybody but myself and I think that my father taught me that. He taught me to be the man that I am today.

Christopher López

Frank “Sparky” Guzman, was born in Somersett, New Jersey in 1958. Frank’s parents migrated to the United States in the 1950’s in search of a better life. They landed in Atlantic City and at age 6 months, Frank and his family moved to Hoboken, where they lived at 715 Clinton Street. His family grew to encompass 5 kids in total, Frank being the second born and first son.

As a boy, Frank attended the Rue School and even skipped 2nd Grade to enter 3rd Grade at P.S. #8. He developed a love for basketball as a middle schooler at the Joseph F. Brandt School, and was part of the championship winning basketball team under Coach Palmieri at Hoboken High School.

Upon graduating from Hoboken High, Frank felt a call to serve. He lost a lot of friends in the Hoboken fires from 1979-84 and wanted to protect his community. He finally got his chance in 1985 when newly elected Mayor Vezzetti appointed Frank to the Hoboken Fire Department. As a firefighter, Frank served his community faithfully for 25 years and had stints at each of Hoboken’s four firehouses.

Frank is now the dad of 3 kids, stepdad to 4 stepkids, grandpa of 12 grandkids, and great-grandpa to 3 great-grandkids. He notes with an immense amount of pride that his family is like the United Nations - global and multicultural through and through.