2 10 114 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/e7b3c6ff3d5dbb53e39885bc85f09d3a.pdf?Expires=1774483200&Signature=lT5tcfE7xVYBqEfqkKRY4KD0b0HOnIISOulk5SJMtS1CVNmbERlMohsrlpPDbfEd%7ELVTZmBzIpk8O08LcERuCAEPhQ5vu7Z2Zc0Bz-nDTEd0cVAW5Rn7pxgG90ORL6jrl%7EANclfuXs2SSj737QpbPcUjQJLHPUYk4r%7EXyvtJfTppJj2Lo3mAcg0-KSMjGaCquMX8LnjJB2wG0kERZyL7kCFPzENofei0h%7E1MQaKjckoSzCPBzYQrXaiw8a6rB8xfZgGUs7TPXQsQJ3RHebdgK2Hhg8GrluC%7EUjK4rpBkY49dH6BivNs%7EtmA1bZLUeg8U0kBXtQp60bRUXN136EOlvQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 13d0a84d02909e08798a5da9fbd40d58 PDF Text Text Gabriel Hernandez This conversation was recorded on Tuesday, January 30th, 2024. SUMMARY KEYWORDS parentage, authenticity, Puerto Ricanness, culture, tradition, shared histories, loss of history, cultural transmission, displacement versus privilege, tokenism of land acknowledgments, genocide, violence, empire, reciprocity Chris: Why do you do what you do? What inspired your play, Quarter Rican? Gabriel: I had, like, idle fantasies of, like a stand up set. I'd never done any stand up and I had always wanted to, you know, but without any sort of, like, discipline or whatever, right? I got some funny stories, you know, I got a couple jokes about my kids' jaundice, you know what I mean (laughs) I got jokes about my private school, like being a Latino kid in a private school, you know? So I just had, like little buttons that I was interested in pushing on and exploiting for comedy. So there wasn't even any music yet. There was very little sense of place. I mean, the Puerto Ricanness, was there, you know, because the whole premise was like, ah, is this kid (Puerto Rican enough)? And clearly, underneath the instinct to joke often the jokes come from some true, painful thing. The wondering, like, damn, are my kids just gonna be straight up white voice, you know what I mean? Like, is this kid gonna just gonna be a white boy? Chris: Like that was a fear for you? Gabriel: Yeah, like, it was a fear, yeah. Like, do I have enough, like culturally and genetically? Do I have enough of this thing to transmit it? Is he gonna have enough of this thing to claim it? Chris: Why is that important to you? Gabriel: So, that's the next question, right? It's like, that doesn't matter. Like, you know what I mean, like, is like, is this something that I need to be losing sleep over? Because the idea of pride, that was one that I sort of like kept circling, just being like, it doesn't matter, is being proud of your culture or your heritage or your whatever, is that some shit that should be a legitimate deciding factor in the way you raise (your child)? Ultimately what did feel important, because ultimately, pride leads to all sorts of bullshit too, right? It's like all sorts of, like, foul things in this world because of ethnic pride, right? It's just not something that even, like, is a positive to be leaning into. It's an existential, philosophical question. Ultimately, where I landed was what matters for this little kid who doesn't even exist yet, he should know the stories of the people in his family. He should know ancestors' stories. So even if he has one Puerto Rican grandparent, well that matters. His abuelo matters, and that dude's story matters. So it's like, my pops, even if he's like, one of one of four (grandparents to his son) and it's not a majority of that (his son’s) particular identity or something to be able to hang his hat on and be like, I'm a Puerto Rican kid or something like that. Fuck all that! He should know his dad's island like he should �know his dad's stories. He should know his dad's tradition, his grandfather, his grandfather's traditions. So it was about that, it was about all of these kinds of generation things and what gets lost generation to generation. Even when everybody in the same family is Puerto Rican, some shit gets lost, 25, 30 years in. That's the half life of cultural transmission. So it wound up being sort of always about that, even while also being sort of like just me talking shit and and like telling stories and like cracking jokes at my mother in law's expense (Chris laughs). Gabriel: But then it started like, zeroing in on place. It was kind of like it crept up on me. I realized, like, oh, this play is actually as much as it is about Puerto Ricanness this, or lack thereof, or mixedness, or whatever, this play is also very much about hood, and hoods, and changing neighborhoods. Who gets to live where? And who gets kicked the fuck out! So it started to morph a little bit to take that on in a more sobering experience of watching the thing, I think it probably still feels like a comedy, but then there's like, a couple of fucking, you know, like, kidney shots that just are very much intentional that I want to squash the laughter fucking immediately and remind people that, like, you know, fuck a land acknowledgement. These flaccid gestures at like wokeness or whatever, like, if you're sitting there in that audience, chances are you've benefited from from genocide, like straight up you know what I mean? Like if you bought a ticket to my shit, in all likelihood, you're reaping the benefits of fucking violent empire. That isn't just some shit from 300 years ago, either. Shit from 30 years ago, some shit from three weeks ago. So it was like that instinct. It had been developed in the Bronx, and I always knew that I was gonna be doing it and like Pregones (theater) or Puerto Rican Traveling Theater, but when I had the chance to do it at Hoboken, that kind of, like, lit a special little fire under my ass, where I was just like, oh, like, let me hold a mirror up to these gringos who are going to be in that house for that month. The gentrification piece would have been there no matter what but, even this particular song(performed in the play), I'm not 100% sure it would have wound up in there, if not for the Hoboken run. Chris: How does the song go? Gabriel (performing the song): It goes, How you like your fancy buildings, your spotless little piers. This block is in a rears the decks pretty severe. The Mile Square City's not as sweet as it appears. 50 weekends murdered by some filthy profiteers, 50 Puerto Ricans who were sent to die didn't know the end was coming when they went inside for the night. Now they're gone and the rent is high, perfect for these people with expensive lives. We want our reparations, but request the nod. Y'all acknowledge the land. What an empty lie. Want to talk about the hood getting gentrified. No more broken glass trash or rodenticide, but this shit never happens by accident. Rapidly purge all original inhabitants. Out with the old in with the new. Hobokens got blood on his hands. How about you? Who you gonna be when it's all over? Where you gonna go when everything's all done? Everything's all done. What you gonna do when the tide starts rising? Sun's coming up. Now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run… (continued) Nightly demons screaming as my family's hopes and dreams go up in smoke. This can't be real like Ovaltine. Shit is so extreme, we head to parts unknown, pack up our lives, and if we're lucky, find a different home. I guess this is what they call the new normal. My whole �blocks in mourning, this feeling scornful while Whitey sits and eats his eggs florentine. But Whitey brings disease pretty please. Where's my quarantine? Check it, nothing like a arson epidemic to remind these silly liberals that racism systemic, bubbling resentment, Black Lives Matter, and it's wild. How many crackers still struggle with that sentence. A fiery kind of lynching. Now watch us rise up and reduce this troubled paradise to rubble in an instant. The Quakers preach peace when they teach the five tenants, the pacifism for the birds these devils can get it centuries of black and native shit getting ransacked because whiteness is a poison, like weaponized anthrax. The black hands that built this country been sandbag. You want to be an ally, give our fucking lands back. Who you gonna be when it's all over, where you gonna go? And everything's all done. Everything's all done. What you gonna do when the tide starts rising? Sun's coming up. Now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run…out with the old in with the new. Hoboken is a fun little hang, come on through this town was sold for 1000 or two. Hoboken’s balance is long overdue. Who wants another monument to Frankie blue? The city where baseball made its debut. As long as the victims stay completely out of view. Hoboken’s got blood on his hands. How about you? Who you gonna be when it's all over, where you gonna go when everything's all done. Everything's all done. What you gonna do when we start rising? Sun's coming up now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Chris: Why do you do what you do? What inspired your play, Quarter Rican? Gabriel: I had, like, idle fantasies of, like a stand up set. I'd never done any stand up and I had always wanted to, you know, but without any sort of, like, discipline or whatever, right? I got some funny stories, you know, I got a couple jokes about my kids' jaundice, you know what I mean (laughs) I got jokes about my private school, like being a Latino kid in a private school, you know? So I just had, like little buttons that I was interested in pushing on and exploiting for comedy. So there wasn't even any music yet. There was very little sense of place. I mean, the Puerto Ricanness, was there, you know, because the whole premise was like, ah, is this kid (Puerto Rican enough)? And clearly, underneath the instinct to joke often the jokes come from some true, painful thing. The wondering, like, damn, are my kids just gonna be straight up white voice, you know what I mean? Like, is this kid gonna just gonna be a white boy? Chris: Like that was a fear for you? Gabriel: Yeah, like, it was a fear, yeah. Like, do I have enough, like culturally and genetically? Do I have enough of this thing to transmit it? Is he gonna have enough of this thing to claim it? Chris: Why is that important to you? Gabriel: So, that's the next question, right? It's like, that doesn't matter. Like, you know what I mean, like, is like, is this something that I need to be losing sleep over? Because the idea of pride, that was one that I sort of like kept circling, just being like, it doesn't matter, is being proud of your culture or your heritage or your whatever, is that some shit that should be a legitimate deciding factor in the way you raise (your child)? Ultimately what did feel important, because ultimately, pride leads to all sorts of bullshit too, right? It's like all sorts of, like, foul things in this world because of ethnic pride, right? It's just not something that even, like, is a positive to be leaning into. It's an existential, philosophical question. Ultimately, where I landed was what matters for this little kid who doesn't even exist yet, he should know the stories of the people in his family. He should know ancestors' stories. So even if he has one Puerto Rican grandparent, well that matters. His abuelo matters, and that dude's story matters. So it's like, my pops, even if he's like, one of one of four (grandparents to his son) and it's not a majority of that (his son’s) particular identity or something to be able to hang his hat on and be like, I'm a Puerto Rican kid or something like that. Fuck all that! He should know his dad's island like he should know his dad's stories. He should know his dad's tradition, his grandfather, his grandfather's traditions. So it was about that, it was about all of these kinds of generation things and what gets lost generation to generation. Even when everybody in the same family is Puerto Rican, some shit gets lost, 25, 30 years in. That's the half life of cultural transmission. So it wound up being sort of always about that, even while also being sort of like just me talking shit and and like telling stories and like cracking jokes at my mother in law's expense (Chris laughs). Gabriel: But then it started like, zeroing in on place. It was kind of like it crept up on me. I realized, like, oh, this play is actually as much as it is about Puerto Ricanness this, or lack thereof, or mixedness, or whatever, this play is also very much about hood, and hoods, and changing neighborhoods. Who gets to live where? And who gets kicked the fuck out! So it started to morph a little bit to take that on in a more sobering experience of watching the thing, I think it probably still feels like a comedy, but then there's like, a couple of fucking, you know, like, kidney shots that just are very much intentional that I want to squash the laughter fucking immediately and remind people that, like, you know, fuck a land acknowledgement. These flaccid gestures at like wokeness or whatever, like, if you're sitting there in that audience, chances are you've benefited from from genocide, like straight up you know what I mean? Like if you bought a ticket to my shit, in all likelihood, you're reaping the benefits of fucking violent empire. That isn't just some shit from 300 years ago, either. Shit from 30 years ago, some shit from three weeks ago. So it was like that instinct. It had been developed in the Bronx, and I always knew that I was gonna be doing it and like Pregones (theater) or Puerto Rican Traveling Theater, but when I had the chance to do it at Hoboken, that kind of, like, lit a special little fire under my ass, where I was just like, oh, like, let me hold a mirror up to these gringos who are going to be in that house for that month. The gentrification piece would have been there no matter what but, even this particular song(performed in the play), I'm not 100% sure it would have wound up in there, if not for the Hoboken run. Chris: How does the song go? Gabriel (performing the song): It goes, How you like your fancy buildings, your spotless little piers. This block is in a rears the decks pretty severe. The Mile Square City's not as sweet as it appears. 50 weekends murdered by some filthy profiteers, 50 Puerto Ricans who were sent to die didn't know the end was coming when they went inside for the night. Now they're gone and the rent is high, perfect for these people with expensive lives. We want our reparations, but request the nod. Y'all acknowledge the land. What an empty lie. Want to talk about the hood getting gentrified. No more broken glass trash or rodenticide, but this shit never happens by accident. Rapidly purge all original inhabitants. Out with the old in with the new. Hobokens got blood on his hands. How about you? Who you gonna be when it's all over? Where you gonna go when everything's all done? Everything's all done. What you gonna do when the tide starts rising? Sun's coming up. Now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run… (continued) Nightly demons screaming as my family's hopes and dreams go up in smoke. This can't be real like Ovaltine. Shit is so extreme, we head to parts unknown, pack up our lives, and if we're lucky, find a different home. I guess this is what they call the new normal. My whole blocks in mourning, this feeling scornful while Whitey sits and eats his eggs florentine. But Whitey brings disease pretty please. Where's my quarantine? Check it, nothing like a arson epidemic to remind these silly liberals that racism systemic, bubbling resentment, Black Lives Matter, and it's wild. How many crackers still struggle with that sentence. A fiery kind of lynching. Now watch us rise up and reduce this troubled paradise to rubble in an instant. The Quakers preach peace when they teach the five tenants, the pacifism for the birds these devils can get it centuries of black and native shit getting ransacked because whiteness is a poison, like weaponized anthrax. The black hands that built this country been sandbag. You want to be an ally, give our fucking lands back. Who you gonna be when it's all over, where you gonna go? And everything's all done. Everything's all done. What you gonna do when the tide starts rising? Sun's coming up. Now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run…out with the old in with the new. Hoboken is a fun little hang, come on through this town was sold for 1000 or two. Hoboken’s balance is long overdue. Who wants another monument to Frankie blue? The city where baseball made its debut. As long as the victims stay completely out of view. Hoboken’s got blood on his hands. How about you? Who you gonna be when it's all over, where you gonna go when everything's all done. Everything's all done. What you gonna do when we start rising? Sun's coming up now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run… Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Christopher López Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gabriel Hernandez. Gabriel Hernandez is an emcee, voice actor, burlesque artist, playwright, and educator who originally hails from Hoboken, NJ. After receiving a bachelor’s degree in Latin American Studies and a master’s in Education, both from Yale University, he taught history and theater in New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey before transitioning full-time into the performing arts world. He is a proud ensemble member of Pregones Theater in the South Bronx, having appeared in The Marchers, The Desire of the Astronaut, Dancing in My Cockroach Killers, El Bolero Was My Downfall, and ¡Guaracha! Other recent credits include It’s a Wonderful Life (Mile Square Theatre), La Canción (Repertorio Español), El Coquí Espectacular and the Bottle of Doom (Two River Theater), CasablancaBox (HERE Arts), 72 miles to go… (The Alley Theatre), and the world premiere of Quarter Rican (Mile Square Theatre) in March 2023. Quarter Rican was developed through Pregones Theater’s Step-Up Residency under Jorge B. Merced’s mentorship and has had workshops or shared excerpts at various urban gardens in the South Bronx through Pregones’s Stage Garden Rumba programming, the Nuyorican Poets Cafe, Newark Symphony Hall in partnership with Yendor Theatre, Chelsea Factory in partnership with Musical Theatre Factory, and at the Puerto Rican Traveling Theater, where he is beyond thrilled to bring it home for the New York premiere, where it all began five years ago. Gabriel lives in Jersey City Heights with his wife and songwriting partner Rachel and their two young sons. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gabriel Hernandez, Oral history interview transcription. Subject The topic of the resource Interviews Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Oral history Description An account of the resource A transcription of the oral history interview conducted with Gabriel Hernandez. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview conducted on Tuesday, January 30, 2024. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history (transcription) art artist authenticity culture displagement empire genocide Hoboken Hoboken art scene oral history parentage Puerto Rican Puerto Rico reciprocity tradition violence https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/7ea5756cb5b08d2ece0177b2b4531539.mp3?Expires=1774483200&Signature=UFHbe1wvmC7jlLMwO8I5Lz3GnUe0e9fgIH2VgpDQU8ZxBRWXHBr-pFgb1N6NS9v5PQEc9t064%7E4x5C4o%7EJJFNw%7EDOafaXuG6rmDpOuxqwjcowUb-FYbuZjAHuGIyuSs6iYrS6ec7t3DMfDhQO07IpyrQfwIeM2nhpJp4QWcXTsdEJTuPR0OnLZ-MF-a-CSc5C63tQw2FNJVTR-9655Hqwil6D6DmhTiUHMlnrA%7Egi44sIJHstnAp6GOpL6I2WsFXdvQg3bjNPQ0ylbpD1B6K5VFIKbHzKRMqvtX3tZK2%7EQ9QVfi3ib9A3G7b3PKBCVoDCehcUvHudy3v2AgLC30lYw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 0ec62c714243f77a24a387581de4b954 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital audio file Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:10:01 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 192kbit/s Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Chris: Why do you do what you do? What inspired your play, Quarter Rican? Gabriel: I had, like, idle fantasies of, like a stand up set. I'd never done any stand up and I had always wanted to, you know, but without any sort of, like, discipline or whatever, right? I got some funny stories, you know, I got a couple jokes about my kids' jaundice, you know what I mean (laughs) I got jokes about my private school, like being a Latino kid in a private school, you know? So I just had, like little buttons that I was interested in pushing on and exploiting for comedy. So there wasn't even any music yet. There was very little sense of place. I mean, the Puerto Ricanness, was there, you know, because the whole premise was like, ah, is this kid (Puerto Rican enough)? And clearly, underneath the instinct to joke often the jokes come from some true, painful thing. The wondering, like, damn, are my kids just gonna be straight up white voice, you know what I mean? Like, is this kid gonna just gonna be a white boy? Chris: Like that was a fear for you? Gabriel: Yeah, like, it was a fear, yeah. Like, do I have enough, like culturally and genetically? Do I have enough of this thing to transmit it? Is he gonna have enough of this thing to claim it? Chris: Why is that important to you? Gabriel: So, that's the next question, right? It's like, that doesn't matter. Like, you know what I mean, like, is like, is this something that I need to be losing sleep over? Because the idea of pride, that was one that I sort of like kept circling, just being like, it doesn't matter, is being proud of your culture or your heritage or your whatever, is that some shit that should be a legitimate deciding factor in the way you raise (your child)? Ultimately what did feel important, because ultimately, pride leads to all sorts of bullshit too, right? It's like all sorts of, like, foul things in this world because of ethnic pride, right? It's just not something that even, like, is a positive to be leaning into. It's an existential, philosophical question. Ultimately, where I landed was what matters for this little kid who doesn't even exist yet, he should know the stories of the people in his family. He should know ancestors' stories. So even if he has one Puerto Rican grandparent, well that matters. His abuelo matters, and that dude's story matters. So it's like, my pops, even if he's like, one of one of four (grandparents to his son) and it's not a majority of that (his son’s) particular identity or something to be able to hang his hat on and be like, I'm a Puerto Rican kid or something like that. Fuck all that! He should know his dad's island like he should know his dad's stories. He should know his dad's tradition, his grandfather, his grandfather's traditions. So it was about that, it was about all of these kinds of generation things and what gets lost generation to generation. Even when everybody in the same family is Puerto Rican, some shit gets lost, 25, 30 years in. That's the half life of cultural transmission. So it wound up being sort of always about that, even while also being sort of like just me talking shit and and like telling stories and like cracking jokes at my mother in law's expense (Chris laughs). Gabriel: But then it started like, zeroing in on place. It was kind of like it crept up on me. I realized, like, oh, this play is actually as much as it is about Puerto Ricanness this, or lack thereof, or mixedness, or whatever, this play is also very much about hood, and hoods, and changing neighborhoods. Who gets to live where? And who gets kicked the fuck out! So it started to morph a little bit to take that on in a more sobering experience of watching the thing, I think it probably still feels like a comedy, but then there's like, a couple of fucking, you know, like, kidney shots that just are very much intentional that I want to squash the laughter fucking immediately and remind people that, like, you know, fuck a land acknowledgement. These flaccid gestures at like wokeness or whatever, like, if you're sitting there in that audience, chances are you've benefited from from genocide, like straight up you know what I mean? Like if you bought a ticket to my shit, in all likelihood, you're reaping the benefits of fucking violent empire. That isn't just some shit from 300 years ago, either. Shit from 30 years ago, some shit from three weeks ago. So it was like that instinct. It had been developed in the Bronx, and I always knew that I was gonna be doing it and like Pregones (theater) or Puerto Rican Traveling Theater, but when I had the chance to do it at Hoboken, that kind of, like, lit a special little fire under my ass, where I was just like, oh, like, let me hold a mirror up to these gringos who are going to be in that house for that month. The gentrification piece would have been there no matter what but, even this particular song(performed in the play), I'm not 100% sure it would have wound up in there, if not for the Hoboken run. Chris: How does the song go? Gabriel (performing the song): It goes, How you like your fancy buildings, your spotless little piers. This block is in a rears the decks pretty severe. The Mile Square City's not as sweet as it appears. 50 weekends murdered by some filthy profiteers, 50 Puerto Ricans who were sent to die didn't know the end was coming when they went inside for the night. Now they're gone and the rent is high, perfect for these people with expensive lives. We want our reparations, but request the nod. Y'all acknowledge the land. What an empty lie. Want to talk about the hood getting gentrified. No more broken glass trash or rodenticide, but this shit never happens by accident. Rapidly purge all original inhabitants. Out with the old in with the new. Hobokens got blood on his hands. How about you? Who you gonna be when it's all over? Where you gonna go when everything's all done? Everything's all done. What you gonna do when the tide starts rising? Sun's coming up. Now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run… (continued) Nightly demons screaming as my family's hopes and dreams go up in smoke. This can't be real like Ovaltine. Shit is so extreme, we head to parts unknown, pack up our lives, and if we're lucky, find a different home. I guess this is what they call the new normal. My whole blocks in mourning, this feeling scornful while Whitey sits and eats his eggs florentine. But Whitey brings disease pretty please. Where's my quarantine? Check it, nothing like a arson epidemic to remind these silly liberals that racism systemic, bubbling resentment, Black Lives Matter, and it's wild. How many crackers still struggle with that sentence. A fiery kind of lynching. Now watch us rise up and reduce this troubled paradise to rubble in an instant. The Quakers preach peace when they teach the five tenants, the pacifism for the birds these devils can get it centuries of black and native shit getting ransacked because whiteness is a poison, like weaponized anthrax. The black hands that built this country been sandbag. You want to be an ally, give our fucking lands back. Who you gonna be when it's all over, where you gonna go? And everything's all done. Everything's all done. What you gonna do when the tide starts rising? Sun's coming up. Now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run…out with the old in with the new. Hoboken is a fun little hang, come on through this town was sold for 1000 or two. Hoboken’s balance is long overdue. Who wants another monument to Frankie blue? The city where baseball made its debut. As long as the victims stay completely out of view. Hoboken’s got blood on his hands. How about you? Who you gonna be when it's all over, where you gonna go when everything's all done. Everything's all done. What you gonna do when we start rising? Sun's coming up now, where you gonna run? Where you gonna run? Run, run, run… Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Christopher López Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gabriel Hernandez. Gabriel Hernandez is an emcee, voice actor, burlesque artist, playwright, and educator who originally hails from Hoboken, NJ. After receiving a bachelor’s degree in Latin American Studies and a master’s in Education, both from Yale University, he taught history and theater in New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey before transitioning full-time into the performing arts world. He is a proud ensemble member of Pregones Theater in the South Bronx, having appeared in The Marchers, The Desire of the Astronaut, Dancing in My Cockroach Killers, El Bolero Was My Downfall, and ¡Guaracha! Other recent credits include It’s a Wonderful Life (Mile Square Theatre), La Canción (Repertorio Español), El Coquí Espectacular and the Bottle of Doom (Two River Theater), CasablancaBox (HERE Arts), 72 miles to go… (The Alley Theatre), and the world premiere of Quarter Rican (Mile Square Theatre) in March 2023. Quarter Rican was developed through Pregones Theater’s Step-Up Residency under Jorge B. Merced’s mentorship and has had workshops or shared excerpts at various urban gardens in the South Bronx through Pregones’s Stage Garden Rumba programming, the Nuyorican Poets Cafe, Newark Symphony Hall in partnership with Yendor Theatre, Chelsea Factory in partnership with Musical Theatre Factory, and at the Puerto Rican Traveling Theater, where he is beyond thrilled to bring it home for the New York premiere, where it all began five years ago. Gabriel lives in Jersey City Heights with his wife and songwriting partner Rachel and their two young sons. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gabriel Hernandez, Oral history interview audio recording. Subject The topic of the resource Interviews Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Oral history Description An account of the resource The digital audio recording of the oral history interview conducted with Gabriel Hernandez. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview conducted on Tuesday, January 30, 2024. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history (digital audio file) art artist authenticity culture displagement empire genocide Hoboken Hoboken art scene oral history parentage Puerto Rican Puerto Rico reciprocity tradition violence https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/41944272860cdf28bf90b5f88e4341fb.jpg?Expires=1774483200&Signature=Vbmp6pbixo%7EBKzzV9O4o9xk3UdhQYsJcsXQ70EmW3S330JG9664NxFJ00fjJ2xOoMDv1QK8GIBa%7EewrQiSd3jPaNA0zBWZd85X17qa4dpS8hnBwqA0hdHL9gu9r6Pym-K%7E0L0lyV2Bkskxqg4Uup9SZoEkfBULZvgp4oa7IqHnjv%7Ej7TYYtfsPekKMLxPq%7E5e2ISE3DtF-fMRsHO9gyMbsZKlTkyIZ4rv2TYqNRtH6uQD0NuDQup4RL7UzRBr13arArFGf5IBkKfZ4v0qFHRKpMrA-C-Ywibict4SRh%7EQ1jczClcrPt0CVYQeGoahdMc9hx9i5LoXHmqmvOu4lViVA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 1a986be2b081e99c4dd76ed3741716d2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gabriel Hernandez, Photos. Subject The topic of the resource Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Description An account of the resource A still photo of the artist Gabriel Hernandez. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López and Gabriel Hernandez. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPG Type The nature or genre of the resource Still Image art artist authenticity culture displacement empire Gabriel Hernandez genocide Hoboken Hoboken art scene oral history parentage Puerto Rican Puerto Rico reciprocity tradition violence https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/492c53afddb7e7597f71f1e2e88dc928.pdf?Expires=1774483200&Signature=JO0zAhS%7ErPNHnOoBxoIgAmyfE0FmQ6tPjCRShW5utlvDcQ1BSGyHm7938kBJqkZViTh4AF-T6yRw-7-RtpazChkX4Gv6duC7g13-ijKNoeboofE91jb6dRUeSwgrTq6nCaLEfeO9iKRpTlZsMfaSZJdGBOA73yxX5eZprQoHD-DAp2gxGlUhYwMwsVrSqSryvcGR9Olr60jRIyWCTb6UK7OKo%7EwJNpBTiiEieBAynKxOnXOnyCMbeb5On2p-bM8kREn4y7QL1%7EIeeKrFGrrje83hsXXXh0YVCrLDS8On1l4dt%7EUxGkSwkZd6Pjd62PlpTNBU7i6vq4DKgMr8ENu5Qw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM f6c424bd1f57b97ba729639198126e56 PDF Text Text Pagan Family This conversation was recorded on Tuesday, January 30th, 2024. SUMMARY KEYWORDS Migration from Puerto Rico, labor as a seamstress, large Puerto Rican community, raising children, faith, Hispanic religious congregations, history of fires in Hoboken, displacement, loss, racism, Puerto Rican community group CUNA (Citizens United for New Action, Juan Garcia, Tommy Oliveri Ángeles: El hijo mío cumplió un año aquí en Hoboken. Él tiene 45 años. – I come here with my son, my oldest son, he had two months. I came and visited my sister in law for a few weeks, and then I stayed and moved to Hoboken while my sister was living here, and she found me an apartment. ¡Me quedé! *Christopher laughs* Vine a pasiar por una semana y me quedé. Mi primer apartamento era en Monroe, en el 323 de Monroe. Ahí duré como tres años. Después me mudé para Madison, al 214. Y tengo tres: dos nenas y un nene. Sí, había muchos Boricuas. Yo empecé a cortar (inaudible) para fábricas. Aquí le dicen calcomanías o (inaudible). Son como los parchos que le ponen a la ropa, de tela. A veces son de puntillas, o flores o algún muñequito que le ponían a los trajes de los bebes. Eso yo cortaba. CL: ¿Y cómo se llamaba la fábrica? No sé por qué ellos venían de diferentes sitios a traerme [piezas]. Venían de Nueva York, de Hoboken, de otros sitios— donde quiera que tenían trabajo, pues ellos ya sabían y me traían a mí. Si me lo traían el viernes, tenía que entregarlo el otro viernes– más de mil y pico de (inaudible) a cortadas. CL: Eso es un montón de trabajo. Oh sí, pero yo a los nenes los bañaba, los acostaba a dormir, y en lo que ellos dormían yo hacía un montón a ahí. Después cuidaba 7 nenes junto con los míos— la mamá trabajaba y no tenía quién le podía cuidar a los nenes. Un día yo estaba en la casa, y cuando me preguntaron yo le dije que sí. Y como eran de la edad de los míos, eran chiquitos, eran bebes. Y entonces la mamá me traía todos los alimentos para ellos, los pampers, todo. Y les daba de de comer, los bañaba, y los acostaba con mis hijos. �CL: ¿Y todos los niños boricuas? Toditos– [los cuidé] hasta que tuvieron como 10, 12 años. CL: Y tú estas todavía en contacto con los niños o no? Acaso, son adultos. Sí. Solamente vi, como hace dos años, a dos de ellos que cuidé. Y me dijeron que la mama se había ido al cielo. Pero ellos todavía están bien, se casarón, y están de lo más felices. Y los otros– unos se fueron para Nueva York, otros se fueron para Florida. Y así se mudaron, y ya no he visto a nadie. Después de esos dos, que se pusieron grande, me puse a trabajar en un laundry, en 300 de Garden [Street]. Sí, son toditas buenas amigas, toditas cooperamos una con otra– si se enferma una, todas le oramos, la visitamos. Hacemos la comunión y oramos por ella. Ellos hacían unos retiros, y yo fui nueva allí en esa iglesia. Quedaba por la Hudson, estaba frente al parque. Entonces ahí no tuvimos la iglesia hispana, (servicio) en español. Muchos de los que estaban allí no sabían nada de inglés, no entendían la vida americana. Para entonces el padre no nos quiso mandar un sacerdote que hablara español, así que nos decidimos irnos a Our Lady Our Grace. Yo iba a esta iglesia desde que mi hijo tenía como 5 o 6 años. Y como cambiaron la hora de la misa, me fui para St Peter y St Paul. Pero como pasó eso con los hispanos, nos fuimos otra vez para Nuestra Señora la Gracia [Our Lady Our Grace], nos cogieron allí chévere y allí nos quedamos. Seguímos así, ya han sido 25 años desde que conozco a Delia. Ella muy chevere conmigo. Si gritaba algo, yo ayudaba. Cuando se enfermó ella, nosotros orando y siempre dando la mano. Ella siempre era un amor, bien chévere. Todas son muy buenas así. CL: Yo tuve el privilegio de conocer a Delia. Ella me contaba todas las historias de su vida, increíbles historias. Y también, que ella estaba presente el día de uno de los incendios que pasó ahí en Hoboken. Oh sí, es que antes había un “mayor” aquí que era, como, racista. Y cuando no (inaudible) una persona en ese sitio, él mandaba a quemar ese apartamento. Mucha gente murió ahí, porque los incendios eran de noche y ellos estaban durmiendo. Especialmente los indios [de la India]. Entonces hubo uno en Park Avenue, y esa casa se quemó y se llevó como otras tres casas. Como en los 78 u 80 por ahí. O en el 85, antes de nacer mi última nena. Murieron dos niños y más personas, murieron indios, murieron hispanos, mucha gente. Cuando ellos tenían building par vender apartamento, yo fui una de las que apliqué, porque yo quería un apartamento más grande para mis hijos porque yo tenía tres. Y yo me amanecí para llenar la aplicación. Y llené la aplicación, y nunca, nunca me llamaron. Se lo daban a los que hubiera trabajo fijo como maestros, principales de escuela, gente que trabajaba en el gobierno, se los daban [los apartamentos] a ellos. Nosotros lo que teníamos así–no éramos pobres, pero �medio, o sea como clase media. Pero a nosotros no nos daban nada [de ayuda]. Pero por lo menos, aquí estoy por la gracia de Dios. Sobrevivimos. Gracias a Dios ahora, a veces hay incendios, pero es porque la gente son descuidadas. ¡Antes era porque pegaban fuego! (Inaudible) pegaban fuego a los apartamentos. Muchos pasaban porque eran apartamentos viejos y no los querían renovar. En vez decirles a la gente que los iban a renovar, pero no. Mejor pegaban fuego. A veces [hoy] hay fuego en los almacenes que están abandonados, pendejaces con la electricidad o alguna línea de gas. Como el almacen que había en Hoboken cerca de la vía de tren. Eso pego fuego [y cayó] de la noche a la mañana–están haciendo tremendo condominio ahí ahora. CL: ¿Y conociste algunas personas que experimentaron algún incendio durante esos tiempos o no? ¡Bueno, yo misma! *laughs* CL: ¿Cómo? Yo, en el 82, me parece, había un fuego aquí en Madison, y empezó en el tercer piso y yo vivía en el cuarto [piso]. Yo que vivía en ese edificio, el fuego empezó en el tercer piso y yo vivía en el cuarto piso. Y tenía a mis dos nenes y estábamos durmiendo. Y yo oigo como una persona hablando ahí, un revolú, y las sirenas de los bomberos. Me asomo por la ventana y había mucha gente en la calle, ahí. Eso es en el 223 de la Madison–ahora hay un condominio hecho ahí–después el dueño vino, yo me fuí para la casa de mi cuñada, hasta un mes o dos meses. Y después el dueño me arreglo el apartamento, y le avisó a mi hermana que vivía en el 310 de la Madison, que me entregó el apartamento. Y yo vine otra vez a vivir allí. Pero viví allí dos meses y después me mudé otra vez para acá al 327 de Monroe, porque él [el dueño] me dijo que no me garantizaba ese sitio para mí. Lo pensé, y después me mude para otro apartamento. El no me quería ahí porque había mucha droga en el building. CL: ¿Fue su decisión dejar el apartamento? No, él mismo “Te voy a mudar para otro sitio porque tú no estás segura, porque aquí hay mucha droga.” CL: ¿Qué tú crees, él te estaba diciendo la verdad o no? Sí, estaba diciendo la verdad. Porque había personas que yo las veía, que tenían sus cosas. Y por estar quemando esa planta como llaman, Marijuana, como dicen, pues había una estufa vieja en el hall, y ahí pusieron a quemar cosas. Y como eso todavía tenía gas, explotó eso, y cogío en fuego el hall del tercer piso, que cogió hasta arriba y eran cinco pisos para arriba. Pues, a mi apartamento se le quemó la puerta de la cocina. Y cuando me dijeron que la señora del cuarto piso tiene dos nenes y está sola, pues yo cogí a mis dos nenes con la frisa, los empuje, y cuando fui a abrir la puerta se me lleno la casa de humo. ¡Y en esas subió un bombero por la escalera de escape, subieron a mi apartamento y me dijo “Dame tus nenes”, y �yo le dije “¡Yo no te puedo dar mis nenes, se me van a caer! ¿Tú estás seguro de que están contigo? ¡Porque yo estoy seguro de que están conmigo!”–si yo te digo a ti que yo doy mi vida por ellos, y daría la vida por ellos todavía– y el dijo, “¡Confía en mí, confía en mí!” (Inaudible). Ay, Dios mío, pero eso fue una cosa bien mala, tener quemada la bata, [y yo] espetada en el fire escape y tener que bajar así. CL: Ay ay ay ay Y después metieron la tapa esa. (inaudible) Esa tapa pesa, que yo (inaudible) tan flaquita, yo decía “Ay Dios mío”. Y abajo estaba mi hermana y la cu˜ãda de ella con una frisa, con un coat porque hacia frio. Pues de ese humo que yo cogí es que yo tengo esa asthma que no se me quita. Por el humo que entró a mi casa [durante el incendio]. Ahí cogí eso, y no se me ha quitado eso. Hay dias que no puedo hablar de lo ronca que me da esa tos bien mala. Pero aquí estoy gracias al Señor. Te digo que la historia mía también es larga– yo le digo a mis hijas mías que yo puedo escribir un libro… Y me da mucha pena porque la vecina mía, yo le cuidaba los nenes a veces. Pues, ella me dice “Mira, yo me voy a mudar para allá a donde está mi mamá, te voy a avisar para cuando tenga el apartamento vacío, para que te vallás para allá.” Y esa misma semana, que ella me había avisado, fue cuando pasó ese fuego. Y yo digo “Ay Dios mío, gracias. ¿Porque no me fui?” [El nieto], y la mamá, el hermano, y el papá–se murieron los cuatro y se quedó nada más que ella. Ella se quedó viva. Yo no me recuerdo el nombre de ella, porque nada más tengo foto. Pero me dio mucha pena porque la mamá, el papá, el hermano, y un nieto se murieron. Yo tengo foto de la muchacha, pero no recuerdo el apellido. Yo sé que a ella le decían Mari. Se llama Maribel, pero le decían Mari. Esa era la muchacha que vivía donde yo viví, acá abajo en la 327 de Monroe. – Si un hispano o un moreno veía un blanco, le caían arriba, le quitaban las joyas y le quitaban todo. Por eso fue que, cuando yo iba a venir para acá me dijeron “¡¿Tu te vas a meter allí a Hoboken?!” Entonces yo les dije que a Hoboken voy a vivir yo, yo no voy a vivir con los agentes. Y así me he quedado. Si hay un moreno, no se mete con nosotros, con ninguno, ni con los hijos míos, ni mis nietos–nada. ¡Porque nosotros los saludamos! Y si están endrogados, nosotros no tenemos que ver con eso. “¡Hi ma!” yo digo, “Hi, take care of yourself” yo siempre les digo. “Okay, ma, okay” me dicen ellos. ¿Y yo digo “Verdad que uno no pasa malos ratos con ellos?” Yo estoy aquí, yo estoy tranquila. Yo puedo salir por ahí. Mi niña sale de noche, y ella está tranquila porque sabe que nada le va pasar. Porque ellos nos conocen a nosotros ya y nos cuidan mejor. Pero hay blancos que no quieren a los morenos. Entonces ellos lo saben. Son como los perros, ellos saben quién los quiere y quién no. Así que a los míos les digo que saluden. No se paren a hablar, pero saluden y sigan…. (-Looking at photos-) �Son mis nietos, miis nietos– mi nieta, ella ya tiene 26 años. Mírala aquí. Esto fue en Puerto Rico. Y esto es Puerto Rico, y esta es mi mamá. Esos son mis nietos, los hijos de mi hija que vive allí. - Esto fue en la escuela Franklin… Ese es mi nieto, el hijo de mi hijo. CL: Su hija es Mary verdad? Si, Mary, Maryann. Y la otra se llama Gloryann. CL: No, de verdad? Si. Gloryann y Maryann, porque de una se pusieron celosa, asi que se lo puse a los nombres de las dos. Para eso tú le pones el nombre a un hijo, y le pones al otro el que es más lindo, así que te reclaman. So yo le puse a los dos: Gloryann y Maryann. Para que no peleen. CL: Para que no peleen. Y el nene mío se llama Luis Antonio. El hijo mío mayor que es gemelo, al otro le puse Antonio Luis. Para que no pelearon. Yo no quiero que mis hijos peleen. ¿Es que yo oía familias, donde unos decían “Ay, porque le pusiste ese nombre a fulano, y a mí me pusiste este tan feo?” Tú sabes. Pues yo dije, no, mis hijos no van a hacer eso. Mis hijos se van a portar bien–y se quieren mucho los tres. Eso es lo que yo le agradezco a Dios. Que se quieran mucho los tres. Dejame ver si yo, encuentro foto de este. Tenía los conejos, tenía los hamsters, tenía los— mi papá tenía gallos, para las peleas de gallos… CL: Peleas de gallo, mira para alla. Esos son toditos nietos de mi mamá. Son todos nietos de mi mamá. CUNA– ellos hacían actividades para los jovenes. Y hacían un beauty pageant–y la hija mia, Glori, la mayor, salió en uno de ellos. De princesa. CL: También la hija de Delia, Cheeky, ella también salió en uno de esos.. De india taína. Yo recuerdo mucho, mucho de eso. Y la hija mía participó dos veces. Y yo ayudé hacer los trajes CL: That’s so beautiful Yo creo que tengo fotos de eso también. Algunas fotos donde sale ella en el programa ese. �CL: So CUNA— organizaron esos eventos, pero también montaron blockparties. Ellos— que, si venían gente nueva de Puerto Rico [a Hoboken] que no tenían nada, yo casi siempre los ayudaba. A mí me ayudaron como dos años, mientras yo pude coger pie, me ayudaron con comida, me ayudaron una vez con la renta, y me pagaron la luz dos veces, en lo que yo (inaudible). CL: Y tú conocías a Tommy Oliveri? El me ayudó a mí cuando yo me quedé sin dinero para la renta y…. (inaudible, me las daba) Los tuve, cuando dejaba los nenes en la calle, les tuve que ir a buscar algo. O en lo que ella tuvo los tres años que la metí al daycare. Y después ya entonces me pude meter a trabajar en el laundry. (inaudible) Hasta el 2014, que terminé, lo dejé por el asthma, no pude trabajar más. Excepto… todavía está ese (inaudible) ahí. Pero ellos me ayudaron mucho. Por ahi hay una que se llama En el nombre de Jesús, que es en Nuestra Señora la Gracia, en la iglesia que tiene más de 500 años. Que eso es de cuando fundaron Hoboken, hicieron esa iglesia. Entonces ahí hay una organización que dice [se llama] En el nombre de Jesús que también ayuda la gente. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Ángeles: El hijo mío cumplió un año aquí en Hoboken. Él tiene 45 años. – I come here with my son, my oldest son, he had two months. I came and visited my sister in law for a few weeks, and then I stayed and moved to Hoboken while my sister was living here, and she found me an apartment. ¡Me quedé! *Christopher laughs* Vine a pasiar por una semana y me quedé. Mi primer apartamento era en Monroe, en el 323 de Monroe. Ahí duré como tres años. Después me mudé para Madison, al 214. Y tengo tres: dos nenas y un nene. Sí, había muchos Boricuas. Yo empecé a cortar (inaudible) para fábricas. Aquí le dicen calcomanías o (inaudible). Son como los parchos que le ponen a la ropa, de tela. A veces son de puntillas, o flores o algún muñequito que le ponían a los trajes de los bebes. Eso yo cortaba. CL: ¿Y cómo se llamaba la fábrica? No sé por qué ellos venían de diferentes sitios a traerme [piezas]. Venían de Nueva York, de Hoboken, de otros sitios— donde quiera que tenían trabajo, pues ellos ya sabían y me traían a mí. Si me lo traían el viernes, tenía que entregarlo el otro viernes– más de mil y pico de (inaudible) a cortadas. CL: Eso es un montón de trabajo. Oh sí, pero yo a los nenes los bañaba, los acostaba a dormir, y en lo que ellos dormían yo hacía un montón a ahí. Después cuidaba 7 nenes junto con los míos— la mamá trabajaba y no tenía quién le podía cuidar a los nenes. Un día yo estaba en la casa, y cuando me preguntaron yo le dije que sí. Y como eran de la edad de los míos, eran chiquitos, eran bebes. Y entonces la mamá me traía todos los alimentos para ellos, los pampers, todo. Y les daba de de comer, los bañaba, y los acostaba con mis hijos. CL: ¿Y todos los niños boricuas? Toditos– [los cuidé] hasta que tuvieron como 10, 12 años. CL: Y tú estas todavía en contacto con los niños o no? Acaso, son adultos. Sí. Solamente vi, como hace dos años, a dos de ellos que cuidé. Y me dijeron que la mama se había ido al cielo. Pero ellos todavía están bien, se casarón, y están de lo más felices. Y los otros– unos se fueron para Nueva York, otros se fueron para Florida. Y así se mudaron, y ya no he visto a nadie. Después de esos dos, que se pusieron grande, me puse a trabajar en un laundry, en 300 de Garden [Street]. Sí, son toditas buenas amigas, toditas cooperamos una con otra– si se enferma una, todas le oramos, la visitamos. Hacemos la comunión y oramos por ella. Ellos hacían unos retiros, y yo fui nueva allí en esa iglesia. Quedaba por la Hudson, estaba frente al parque. Entonces ahí no tuvimos la iglesia hispana, (servicio) en español. Muchos de los que estaban allí no sabían nada de inglés, no entendían la vida americana. Para entonces el padre no nos quiso mandar un sacerdote que hablara español, así que nos decidimos irnos a Our Lady Our Grace. Yo iba a esta iglesia desde que mi hijo tenía como 5 o 6 años. Y como cambiaron la hora de la misa, me fui para St Peter y St Paul. Pero como pasó eso con los hispanos, nos fuimos otra vez para Nuestra Señora la Gracia [Our Lady Our Grace], nos cogieron allí chévere y allí nos quedamos. Seguímos así, ya han sido 25 años desde que conozco a Delia. Ella muy chevere conmigo. Si gritaba algo, yo ayudaba. Cuando se enfermó ella, nosotros orando y siempre dando la mano. Ella siempre era un amor, bien chévere. Todas son muy buenas así. CL: Yo tuve el privilegio de conocer a Delia. Ella me contaba todas las historias de su vida, increíbles historias. Y también, que ella estaba presente el día de uno de los incendios que pasó ahí en Hoboken. Oh sí, es que antes había un “mayor” aquí que era, como, racista. Y cuando no (inaudible) una persona en ese sitio, él mandaba a quemar ese apartamento. Mucha gente murió ahí, porque los incendios eran de noche y ellos estaban durmiendo. Especialmente los indios [de la India]. Entonces hubo uno en Park Avenue, y esa casa se quemó y se llevó como otras tres casas. Como en los 78 u 80 por ahí. O en el 85, antes de nacer mi última nena. Murieron dos niños y más personas, murieron indios, murieron hispanos, mucha gente. Cuando ellos tenían building par vender apartamento, yo fui una de las que apliqué, porque yo quería un apartamento más grande para mis hijos porque yo tenía tres. Y yo me amanecí para llenar la aplicación. Y llené la aplicación, y nunca, nunca me llamaron. Se lo daban a los que hubiera trabajo fijo como maestros, principales de escuela, gente que trabajaba en el gobierno, se los daban [los apartamentos] a ellos. Nosotros lo que teníamos así–no éramos pobres, pero medio, o sea como clase media. Pero a nosotros no nos daban nada [de ayuda]. Pero por lo menos, aquí estoy por la gracia de Dios. Sobrevivimos. Gracias a Dios ahora, a veces hay incendios, pero es porque la gente son descuidadas. ¡Antes era porque pegaban fuego! (Inaudible) pegaban fuego a los apartamentos. Muchos pasaban porque eran apartamentos viejos y no los querían renovar. En vez decirles a la gente que los iban a renovar, pero no. Mejor pegaban fuego. A veces [hoy] hay fuego en los almacenes que están abandonados, pendejaces con la electricidad o alguna línea de gas. Como el almacen que había en Hoboken cerca de la vía de tren. Eso pego fuego [y cayó] de la noche a la mañana–están haciendo tremendo condominio ahí ahora. CL: ¿Y conociste algunas personas que experimentaron algún incendio durante esos tiempos o no? ¡Bueno, yo misma! *laughs* CL: ¿Cómo? Yo, en el 82, me parece, había un fuego aquí en Madison, y empezó en el tercer piso y yo vivía en el cuarto [piso]. Yo que vivía en ese edificio, el fuego empezó en el tercer piso y yo vivía en el cuarto piso. Y tenía a mis dos nenes y estábamos durmiendo. Y yo oigo como una persona hablando ahí, un revolú, y las sirenas de los bomberos. Me asomo por la ventana y había mucha gente en la calle, ahí. Eso es en el 223 de la Madison–ahora hay un condominio hecho ahí–después el dueño vino, yo me fuí para la casa de mi cuñada, hasta un mes o dos meses. Y después el dueño me arreglo el apartamento, y le avisó a mi hermana que vivía en el 310 de la Madison, que me entregó el apartamento. Y yo vine otra vez a vivir allí. Pero viví allí dos meses y después me mudé otra vez para acá al 327 de Monroe, porque él [el dueño] me dijo que no me garantizaba ese sitio para mí. Lo pensé, y después me mude para otro apartamento. El no me quería ahí porque había mucha droga en el building. CL: ¿Fue su decisión dejar el apartamento? No, él mismo “Te voy a mudar para otro sitio porque tú no estás segura, porque aquí hay mucha droga.” CL: ¿Qué tú crees, él te estaba diciendo la verdad o no? Sí, estaba diciendo la verdad. Porque había personas que yo las veía, que tenían sus cosas. Y por estar quemando esa planta como llaman, Marijuana, como dicen, pues había una estufa vieja en el hall, y ahí pusieron a quemar cosas. Y como eso todavía tenía gas, explotó eso, y cogío en fuego el hall del tercer piso, que cogió hasta arriba y eran cinco pisos para arriba. Pues, a mi apartamento se le quemó la puerta de la cocina. Y cuando me dijeron que la señora del cuarto piso tiene dos nenes y está sola, pues yo cogí a mis dos nenes con la frisa, los empuje, y cuando fui a abrir la puerta se me lleno la casa de humo. ¡Y en esas subió un bombero por la escalera de escape, subieron a mi apartamento y me dijo “Dame tus nenes”, y yo le dije “¡Yo no te puedo dar mis nenes, se me van a caer! ¿Tú estás seguro de que están contigo? ¡Porque yo estoy seguro de que están conmigo!”–si yo te digo a ti que yo doy mi vida por ellos, y daría la vida por ellos todavía– y el dijo, “¡Confía en mí, confía en mí!” (Inaudible). Ay, Dios mío, pero eso fue una cosa bien mala, tener quemada la bata, [y yo] espetada en el fire escape y tener que bajar así. CL: Ay ay ay ay Y después metieron la tapa esa. (inaudible) Esa tapa pesa, que yo (inaudible) tan flaquita, yo decía “Ay Dios mío”. Y abajo estaba mi hermana y la cu˜ãda de ella con una frisa, con un coat porque hacia frio. Pues de ese humo que yo cogí es que yo tengo esa asthma que no se me quita. Por el humo que entró a mi casa [durante el incendio]. Ahí cogí eso, y no se me ha quitado eso. Hay dias que no puedo hablar de lo ronca que me da esa tos bien mala. Pero aquí estoy gracias al Señor. Te digo que la historia mía también es larga– yo le digo a mis hijas mías que yo puedo escribir un libro… Y me da mucha pena porque la vecina mía, yo le cuidaba los nenes a veces. Pues, ella me dice “Mira, yo me voy a mudar para allá a donde está mi mamá, te voy a avisar para cuando tenga el apartamento vacío, para que te vallás para allá.” Y esa misma semana, que ella me había avisado, fue cuando pasó ese fuego. Y yo digo “Ay Dios mío, gracias. ¿Porque no me fui?” [El nieto], y la mamá, el hermano, y el papá–se murieron los cuatro y se quedó nada más que ella. Ella se quedó viva. Yo no me recuerdo el nombre de ella, porque nada más tengo foto. Pero me dio mucha pena porque la mamá, el papá, el hermano, y un nieto se murieron. Yo tengo foto de la muchacha, pero no recuerdo el apellido. Yo sé que a ella le decían Mari. Se llama Maribel, pero le decían Mari. Esa era la muchacha que vivía donde yo viví, acá abajo en la 327 de Monroe. – Si un hispano o un moreno veía un blanco, le caían arriba, le quitaban las joyas y le quitaban todo. Por eso fue que, cuando yo iba a venir para acá me dijeron “¡¿Tu te vas a meter allí a Hoboken?!” Entonces yo les dije que a Hoboken voy a vivir yo, yo no voy a vivir con los agentes. Y así me he quedado. Si hay un moreno, no se mete con nosotros, con ninguno, ni con los hijos míos, ni mis nietos–nada. ¡Porque nosotros los saludamos! Y si están endrogados, nosotros no tenemos que ver con eso. “¡Hi ma!” yo digo, “Hi, take care of yourself” yo siempre les digo. “Okay, ma, okay” me dicen ellos. ¿Y yo digo “Verdad que uno no pasa malos ratos con ellos?” Yo estoy aquí, yo estoy tranquila. Yo puedo salir por ahí. Mi niña sale de noche, y ella está tranquila porque sabe que nada le va pasar. Porque ellos nos conocen a nosotros ya y nos cuidan mejor. Pero hay blancos que no quieren a los morenos. Entonces ellos lo saben. Son como los perros, ellos saben quién los quiere y quién no. Así que a los míos les digo que saluden. No se paren a hablar, pero saluden y sigan…. (-Looking at photos-) Son mis nietos, miis nietos– mi nieta, ella ya tiene 26 años. Mírala aquí. Esto fue en Puerto Rico. Y esto es Puerto Rico, y esta es mi mamá. Esos son mis nietos, los hijos de mi hija que vive allí. - Esto fue en la escuela Franklin… Ese es mi nieto, el hijo de mi hijo. CL: Su hija es Mary verdad? Si, Mary, Maryann. Y la otra se llama Gloryann. CL: No, de verdad? Si. Gloryann y Maryann, porque de una se pusieron celosa, asi que se lo puse a los nombres de las dos. Para eso tú le pones el nombre a un hijo, y le pones al otro el que es más lindo, así que te reclaman. So yo le puse a los dos: Gloryann y Maryann. Para que no peleen. CL: Para que no peleen. Y el nene mío se llama Luis Antonio. El hijo mío mayor que es gemelo, al otro le puse Antonio Luis. Para que no pelearon. Yo no quiero que mis hijos peleen. ¿Es que yo oía familias, donde unos decían “Ay, porque le pusiste ese nombre a fulano, y a mí me pusiste este tan feo?” Tú sabes. Pues yo dije, no, mis hijos no van a hacer eso. Mis hijos se van a portar bien–y se quieren mucho los tres. Eso es lo que yo le agradezco a Dios. Que se quieran mucho los tres. - Dejame ver si yo, encuentro foto de este. - Tenía los conejos, tenía los hamsters, tenía los— mi papá tenía gallos, para las peleas de gallos… CL: Peleas de gallo, mira para alla. - Esos son toditos nietos de mi mamá. Son todos nietos de mi mamá. - CUNA– ellos hacían actividades para los jovenes. Y hacían un beauty pageant–y la hija mia, Glori, la mayor, salió en uno de ellos. De princesa. CL: También la hija de Delia, Cheeky, ella también salió en uno de esos.. De india taína. Yo recuerdo mucho, mucho de eso. Y la hija mía participó dos veces. Y yo ayudé hacer los trajes CL: That’s so beautiful Yo creo que tengo fotos de eso también. Algunas fotos donde sale ella en el programa ese. CL: So CUNA— organizaron esos eventos, pero también montaron blockparties. Ellos— que, si venían gente nueva de Puerto Rico [a Hoboken] que no tenían nada, yo casi siempre los ayudaba. A mí me ayudaron como dos años, mientras yo pude coger pie, me ayudaron con comida, me ayudaron una vez con la renta, y me pagaron la luz dos veces, en lo que yo (inaudible). CL: Y tú conocías a Tommy Oliveri? El me ayudó a mí cuando yo me quedé sin dinero para la renta y…. (inaudible, me las daba) - Los tuve, cuando dejaba los nenes en la calle, les tuve que ir a buscar algo. O en lo que ella tuvo los tres años que la metí al daycare. Y después ya entonces me pude meter a trabajar en el laundry. (inaudible) Hasta el 2014, que terminé, lo dejé por el asthma, no pude trabajar más. Excepto… todavía está ese (inaudible) ahí. Pero ellos me ayudaron mucho. Por ahi hay una que se llama En el nombre de Jesús, que es en Nuestra Señora la Gracia, en la iglesia que tiene más de 500 años. Que eso es de cuando fundaron Hoboken, hicieron esa iglesia. Entonces ahí hay una organización que dice [se llama] En el nombre de Jesús que también ayuda la gente. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Angeles Cotto Hernandez, the seventh of ten children, was born in 1947 on the first day of August to a farming couple, Ramona Hernandez and Domingo Cotto. Growing up near the mountains and among the farm animals, in Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, helped her become resourceful and adaptable to life’s unpredictability. Leaving Puerto Rico for the mainland was never the plan. She traveled to the Bronx, New York, to visit her husband’s (Luis Pagan Martinez) family for a week. She somehow found work as a seamstress in a clothing factory and before she knew it a few months had passed. Her sister, who had been living in Hoboken for a few years, learned of an empty apartment for rent and asked if she and her husband would like to live in Hoboken. In 1979, the couple, along with their nearly one year old baby boy, moved into the first floor apartment of 323 Monroe St. and have been Hobokenites ever since. While raising her infant son she acquired various jobs. Her ability to sew helped her during this time. She would mend and make clothes for neighbors, helping her create a little nest egg. She’s created everything from costumes to sweet sixteen dresses to prom dresses to wedding dresses. Angeles also became the go-to babysitter for a few of the neighbors’ kids. As the children she cared for got older and/or moved away Angeles took to Hudson County Community College, where she found a basic English speaking course and spent the next few years learning English and basic computer skills. In 1993, she found work at a laundromat on Third and Garden and remained there for a little over 20 years before retiring in 2014. Throughout her life one thing that has been a constant in her life has been her faith. A devout catholic since “ the day I was baptized as a baby” her faith has guided her and grounded her through life’s ups and downs. She was always involved in church in some way. In Puerto Rico she taught catechism classes on Sundays for a number of years. Many years later, in Hoboken, she joined Our Lady of Grace Church’s woman-led group called Las Damas de Maria (The Ladies of Mary). This church group bands together to support the church and the community. At times, help with fundraising or special event celebrations. They have become pillars of support for one another as well as members of the church and members of the community. In between the various jobs and hobbies Angeles acquired during the years she found time to grow her family, having three children, a son Luis Antonio Pagan (1978), and two daughters Glory Ann Pagan (1980) and Mary Ann Pagan (1986). Her two eldest children had children of their own giving Angeles six grandchildren in total: Dimarie Veronica Pagan(1996), Brandon Lee Cuevas(1998), Kiomy Jade Cuevas(2002), Luis Edwin Pagan(2003), David Jose Cuevas(2003), and Jose Miguel Blanco(2005). Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Christopher López. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pagan family, Oral history interview transcription. Subject The topic of the resource Interviews Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Oral history Description An account of the resource A transcription of the oral history interview conducted with members of the Pagan family, including Christopher and Angeles. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview conducted on January 30, 2024. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history (transcription) Citizens United for New Action CUNA displacement fires Hoboken Hoboken fire Juan Garcia labor migration oral history Pagan family Puerto Rican Puerto Rico racism Tommy Oliveri https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/9704414cbc5a41972a216a3e061fa254.mp3?Expires=1774483200&Signature=jhWntaTcqUTYl-mbXCSEqukX8ur2MU3iCyJrbeIMf2tmS1ZOd7HKwVqFKXuIWkOTVMq7HlzTTURIfvQmvvKf0xi6xMSqo2yJmOnukoqC4p-4aq1ExXh4bspwbRe0sVx92r449K8HFsbXOi%7Er9k95DGJkZOa6atsDf0J7m3XUX8lePIdKBodp5sLmAUHAemqQpfRdERuhWSkjh1o-5x2YcDthF-JvCn9Wotin4fxevPmFmeDc%7E%7EEBGQMohD5WdqU91oNOaOnUVvKMAoh0u0xPyvhjxmZuSgM19IAZBM8CxZuVkWyZ%7Eislrs3uCkepd6oZ3rEfSQ84YdAbGhCMBs1peg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM f021a78317cfd97293e68ae21b283bdf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MP3 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Ángeles: El hijo mío cumplió un año aquí en Hoboken. Él tiene 45 años. – I come here with my son, my oldest son, he had two months. I came and visited my sister in law for a few weeks, and then I stayed and moved to Hoboken while my sister was living here, and she found me an apartment. ¡Me quedé! *Christopher laughs* Vine a pasiar por una semana y me quedé. Mi primer apartamento era en Monroe, en el 323 de Monroe. Ahí duré como tres años. Después me mudé para Madison, al 214. Y tengo tres: dos nenas y un nene. Sí, había muchos Boricuas. Yo empecé a cortar (inaudible) para fábricas. Aquí le dicen calcomanías o (inaudible). Son como los parchos que le ponen a la ropa, de tela. A veces son de puntillas, o flores o algún muñequito que le ponían a los trajes de los bebes. Eso yo cortaba. CL: ¿Y cómo se llamaba la fábrica? No sé por qué ellos venían de diferentes sitios a traerme [piezas]. Venían de Nueva York, de Hoboken, de otros sitios— donde quiera que tenían trabajo, pues ellos ya sabían y me traían a mí. Si me lo traían el viernes, tenía que entregarlo el otro viernes– más de mil y pico de (inaudible) a cortadas. CL: Eso es un montón de trabajo. Oh sí, pero yo a los nenes los bañaba, los acostaba a dormir, y en lo que ellos dormían yo hacía un montón a ahí. Después cuidaba 7 nenes junto con los míos— la mamá trabajaba y no tenía quién le podía cuidar a los nenes. Un día yo estaba en la casa, y cuando me preguntaron yo le dije que sí. Y como eran de la edad de los míos, eran chiquitos, eran bebes. Y entonces la mamá me traía todos los alimentos para ellos, los pampers, todo. Y les daba de de comer, los bañaba, y los acostaba con mis hijos. CL: ¿Y todos los niños boricuas? Toditos– [los cuidé] hasta que tuvieron como 10, 12 años. CL: Y tú estas todavía en contacto con los niños o no? Acaso, son adultos. Sí. Solamente vi, como hace dos años, a dos de ellos que cuidé. Y me dijeron que la mama se había ido al cielo. Pero ellos todavía están bien, se casarón, y están de lo más felices. Y los otros– unos se fueron para Nueva York, otros se fueron para Florida. Y así se mudaron, y ya no he visto a nadie. Después de esos dos, que se pusieron grande, me puse a trabajar en un laundry, en 300 de Garden [Street]. Sí, son toditas buenas amigas, toditas cooperamos una con otra– si se enferma una, todas le oramos, la visitamos. Hacemos la comunión y oramos por ella. Ellos hacían unos retiros, y yo fui nueva allí en esa iglesia. Quedaba por la Hudson, estaba frente al parque. Entonces ahí no tuvimos la iglesia hispana, (servicio) en español. Muchos de los que estaban allí no sabían nada de inglés, no entendían la vida americana. Para entonces el padre no nos quiso mandar un sacerdote que hablara español, así que nos decidimos irnos a Our Lady Our Grace. Yo iba a esta iglesia desde que mi hijo tenía como 5 o 6 años. Y como cambiaron la hora de la misa, me fui para St Peter y St Paul. Pero como pasó eso con los hispanos, nos fuimos otra vez para Nuestra Señora la Gracia [Our Lady Our Grace], nos cogieron allí chévere y allí nos quedamos. Seguímos así, ya han sido 25 años desde que conozco a Delia. Ella muy chevere conmigo. Si gritaba algo, yo ayudaba. Cuando se enfermó ella, nosotros orando y siempre dando la mano. Ella siempre era un amor, bien chévere. Todas son muy buenas así. CL: Yo tuve el privilegio de conocer a Delia. Ella me contaba todas las historias de su vida, increíbles historias. Y también, que ella estaba presente el día de uno de los incendios que pasó ahí en Hoboken. Oh sí, es que antes había un “mayor” aquí que era, como, racista. Y cuando no (inaudible) una persona en ese sitio, él mandaba a quemar ese apartamento. Mucha gente murió ahí, porque los incendios eran de noche y ellos estaban durmiendo. Especialmente los indios [de la India]. Entonces hubo uno en Park Avenue, y esa casa se quemó y se llevó como otras tres casas. Como en los 78 u 80 por ahí. O en el 85, antes de nacer mi última nena. Murieron dos niños y más personas, murieron indios, murieron hispanos, mucha gente. Cuando ellos tenían building par vender apartamento, yo fui una de las que apliqué, porque yo quería un apartamento más grande para mis hijos porque yo tenía tres. Y yo me amanecí para llenar la aplicación. Y llené la aplicación, y nunca, nunca me llamaron. Se lo daban a los que hubiera trabajo fijo como maestros, principales de escuela, gente que trabajaba en el gobierno, se los daban [los apartamentos] a ellos. Nosotros lo que teníamos así–no éramos pobres, pero medio, o sea como clase media. Pero a nosotros no nos daban nada [de ayuda]. Pero por lo menos, aquí estoy por la gracia de Dios. Sobrevivimos. Gracias a Dios ahora, a veces hay incendios, pero es porque la gente son descuidadas. ¡Antes era porque pegaban fuego! (Inaudible) pegaban fuego a los apartamentos. Muchos pasaban porque eran apartamentos viejos y no los querían renovar. En vez decirles a la gente que los iban a renovar, pero no. Mejor pegaban fuego. A veces [hoy] hay fuego en los almacenes que están abandonados, pendejaces con la electricidad o alguna línea de gas. Como el almacen que había en Hoboken cerca de la vía de tren. Eso pego fuego [y cayó] de la noche a la mañana–están haciendo tremendo condominio ahí ahora. CL: ¿Y conociste algunas personas que experimentaron algún incendio durante esos tiempos o no? ¡Bueno, yo misma! *laughs* CL: ¿Cómo? Yo, en el 82, me parece, había un fuego aquí en Madison, y empezó en el tercer piso y yo vivía en el cuarto [piso]. Yo que vivía en ese edificio, el fuego empezó en el tercer piso y yo vivía en el cuarto piso. Y tenía a mis dos nenes y estábamos durmiendo. Y yo oigo como una persona hablando ahí, un revolú, y las sirenas de los bomberos. Me asomo por la ventana y había mucha gente en la calle, ahí. Eso es en el 223 de la Madison–ahora hay un condominio hecho ahí–después el dueño vino, yo me fuí para la casa de mi cuñada, hasta un mes o dos meses. Y después el dueño me arreglo el apartamento, y le avisó a mi hermana que vivía en el 310 de la Madison, que me entregó el apartamento. Y yo vine otra vez a vivir allí. Pero viví allí dos meses y después me mudé otra vez para acá al 327 de Monroe, porque él [el dueño] me dijo que no me garantizaba ese sitio para mí. Lo pensé, y después me mude para otro apartamento. El no me quería ahí porque había mucha droga en el building. CL: ¿Fue su decisión dejar el apartamento? No, él mismo “Te voy a mudar para otro sitio porque tú no estás segura, porque aquí hay mucha droga.” CL: ¿Qué tú crees, él te estaba diciendo la verdad o no? Sí, estaba diciendo la verdad. Porque había personas que yo las veía, que tenían sus cosas. Y por estar quemando esa planta como llaman, Marijuana, como dicen, pues había una estufa vieja en el hall, y ahí pusieron a quemar cosas. Y como eso todavía tenía gas, explotó eso, y cogío en fuego el hall del tercer piso, que cogió hasta arriba y eran cinco pisos para arriba. Pues, a mi apartamento se le quemó la puerta de la cocina. Y cuando me dijeron que la señora del cuarto piso tiene dos nenes y está sola, pues yo cogí a mis dos nenes con la frisa, los empuje, y cuando fui a abrir la puerta se me lleno la casa de humo. ¡Y en esas subió un bombero por la escalera de escape, subieron a mi apartamento y me dijo “Dame tus nenes”, y yo le dije “¡Yo no te puedo dar mis nenes, se me van a caer! ¿Tú estás seguro de que están contigo? ¡Porque yo estoy seguro de que están conmigo!”–si yo te digo a ti que yo doy mi vida por ellos, y daría la vida por ellos todavía– y el dijo, “¡Confía en mí, confía en mí!” (Inaudible). Ay, Dios mío, pero eso fue una cosa bien mala, tener quemada la bata, [y yo] espetada en el fire escape y tener que bajar así. CL: Ay ay ay ay Y después metieron la tapa esa. (inaudible) Esa tapa pesa, que yo (inaudible) tan flaquita, yo decía “Ay Dios mío”. Y abajo estaba mi hermana y la cu˜ãda de ella con una frisa, con un coat porque hacia frio. Pues de ese humo que yo cogí es que yo tengo esa asthma que no se me quita. Por el humo que entró a mi casa [durante el incendio]. Ahí cogí eso, y no se me ha quitado eso. Hay dias que no puedo hablar de lo ronca que me da esa tos bien mala. Pero aquí estoy gracias al Señor. Te digo que la historia mía también es larga– yo le digo a mis hijas mías que yo puedo escribir un libro… Y me da mucha pena porque la vecina mía, yo le cuidaba los nenes a veces. Pues, ella me dice “Mira, yo me voy a mudar para allá a donde está mi mamá, te voy a avisar para cuando tenga el apartamento vacío, para que te vallás para allá.” Y esa misma semana, que ella me había avisado, fue cuando pasó ese fuego. Y yo digo “Ay Dios mío, gracias. ¿Porque no me fui?” [El nieto], y la mamá, el hermano, y el papá–se murieron los cuatro y se quedó nada más que ella. Ella se quedó viva. Yo no me recuerdo el nombre de ella, porque nada más tengo foto. Pero me dio mucha pena porque la mamá, el papá, el hermano, y un nieto se murieron. Yo tengo foto de la muchacha, pero no recuerdo el apellido. Yo sé que a ella le decían Mari. Se llama Maribel, pero le decían Mari. Esa era la muchacha que vivía donde yo viví, acá abajo en la 327 de Monroe. – Si un hispano o un moreno veía un blanco, le caían arriba, le quitaban las joyas y le quitaban todo. Por eso fue que, cuando yo iba a venir para acá me dijeron “¡¿Tu te vas a meter allí a Hoboken?!” Entonces yo les dije que a Hoboken voy a vivir yo, yo no voy a vivir con los agentes. Y así me he quedado. Si hay un moreno, no se mete con nosotros, con ninguno, ni con los hijos míos, ni mis nietos–nada. ¡Porque nosotros los saludamos! Y si están endrogados, nosotros no tenemos que ver con eso. “¡Hi ma!” yo digo, “Hi, take care of yourself” yo siempre les digo. “Okay, ma, okay” me dicen ellos. ¿Y yo digo “Verdad que uno no pasa malos ratos con ellos?” Yo estoy aquí, yo estoy tranquila. Yo puedo salir por ahí. Mi niña sale de noche, y ella está tranquila porque sabe que nada le va pasar. Porque ellos nos conocen a nosotros ya y nos cuidan mejor. Pero hay blancos que no quieren a los morenos. Entonces ellos lo saben. Son como los perros, ellos saben quién los quiere y quién no. Así que a los míos les digo que saluden. No se paren a hablar, pero saluden y sigan…. (-Looking at photos-) Son mis nietos, miis nietos– mi nieta, ella ya tiene 26 años. Mírala aquí. Esto fue en Puerto Rico. Y esto es Puerto Rico, y esta es mi mamá. Esos son mis nietos, los hijos de mi hija que vive allí. - Esto fue en la escuela Franklin… Ese es mi nieto, el hijo de mi hijo. CL: Su hija es Mary verdad? Si, Mary, Maryann. Y la otra se llama Gloryann. CL: No, de verdad? Si. Gloryann y Maryann, porque de una se pusieron celosa, asi que se lo puse a los nombres de las dos. Para eso tú le pones el nombre a un hijo, y le pones al otro el que es más lindo, así que te reclaman. So yo le puse a los dos: Gloryann y Maryann. Para que no peleen. CL: Para que no peleen. Y el nene mío se llama Luis Antonio. El hijo mío mayor que es gemelo, al otro le puse Antonio Luis. Para que no pelearon. Yo no quiero que mis hijos peleen. ¿Es que yo oía familias, donde unos decían “Ay, porque le pusiste ese nombre a fulano, y a mí me pusiste este tan feo?” Tú sabes. Pues yo dije, no, mis hijos no van a hacer eso. Mis hijos se van a portar bien–y se quieren mucho los tres. Eso es lo que yo le agradezco a Dios. Que se quieran mucho los tres. - Dejame ver si yo, encuentro foto de este. - Tenía los conejos, tenía los hamsters, tenía los— mi papá tenía gallos, para las peleas de gallos… CL: Peleas de gallo, mira para alla. - Esos son toditos nietos de mi mamá. Son todos nietos de mi mamá. - CUNA– ellos hacían actividades para los jovenes. Y hacían un beauty pageant–y la hija mia, Glori, la mayor, salió en uno de ellos. De princesa. CL: También la hija de Delia, Cheeky, ella también salió en uno de esos.. De india taína. Yo recuerdo mucho, mucho de eso. Y la hija mía participó dos veces. Y yo ayudé hacer los trajes CL: That’s so beautiful Yo creo que tengo fotos de eso también. Algunas fotos donde sale ella en el programa ese. CL: So CUNA— organizaron esos eventos, pero también montaron blockparties. Ellos— que, si venían gente nueva de Puerto Rico [a Hoboken] que no tenían nada, yo casi siempre los ayudaba. A mí me ayudaron como dos años, mientras yo pude coger pie, me ayudaron con comida, me ayudaron una vez con la renta, y me pagaron la luz dos veces, en lo que yo (inaudible). CL: Y tú conocías a Tommy Oliveri? El me ayudó a mí cuando yo me quedé sin dinero para la renta y…. (inaudible, me las daba) - Los tuve, cuando dejaba los nenes en la calle, les tuve que ir a buscar algo. O en lo que ella tuvo los tres años que la metí al daycare. Y después ya entonces me pude meter a trabajar en el laundry. (inaudible) Hasta el 2014, que terminé, lo dejé por el asthma, no pude trabajar más. Excepto… todavía está ese (inaudible) ahí. Pero ellos me ayudaron mucho. Por ahi hay una que se llama En el nombre de Jesús, que es en Nuestra Señora la Gracia, en la iglesia que tiene más de 500 años. Que eso es de cuando fundaron Hoboken, hicieron esa iglesia. Entonces ahí hay una organización que dice [se llama] En el nombre de Jesús que también ayuda la gente. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Christopher López. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Angeles Cotto Hernandez, the seventh of ten children, was born in 1947 on the first day of August to a farming couple, Ramona Hernandez and Domingo Cotto. Growing up near the mountains and among the farm animals, in Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, helped her become resourceful and adaptable to life’s unpredictability. Leaving Puerto Rico for the mainland was never the plan. She traveled to the Bronx, New York, to visit her husband’s (Luis Pagan Martinez) family for a week. She somehow found work as a seamstress in a clothing factory and before she knew it a few months had passed. Her sister, who had been living in Hoboken for a few years, learned of an empty apartment for rent and asked if she and her husband would like to live in Hoboken. In 1979, the couple, along with their nearly one year old baby boy, moved into the first floor apartment of 323 Monroe St. and have been Hobokenites ever since. While raising her infant son she acquired various jobs. Her ability to sew helped her during this time. She would mend and make clothes for neighbors, helping her create a little nest egg. She’s created everything from costumes to sweet sixteen dresses to prom dresses to wedding dresses. Angeles also became the go-to babysitter for a few of the neighbors’ kids. As the children she cared for got older and/or moved away Angeles took to Hudson County Community College, where she found a basic English speaking course and spent the next few years learning English and basic computer skills. In 1993, she found work at a laundromat on Third and Garden and remained there for a little over 20 years before retiring in 2014. Throughout her life one thing that has been a constant in her life has been her faith. A devout catholic since “ the day I was baptized as a baby” her faith has guided her and grounded her through life’s ups and downs. She was always involved in church in some way. In Puerto Rico she taught catechism classes on Sundays for a number of years. Many years later, in Hoboken, she joined Our Lady of Grace Church’s woman-led group called Las Damas de Maria (The Ladies of Mary). This church group bands together to support the church and the community. At times, help with fundraising or special event celebrations. They have become pillars of support for one another as well as members of the church and members of the community. In between the various jobs and hobbies Angeles acquired during the years she found time to grow her family, having three children, a son Luis Antonio Pagan (1978), and two daughters Glory Ann Pagan (1980) and Mary Ann Pagan (1986). Her two eldest children had children of their own giving Angeles six grandchildren in total: Dimarie Veronica Pagan(1996), Brandon Lee Cuevas(1998), Kiomy Jade Cuevas(2002), Luis Edwin Pagan(2003), David Jose Cuevas(2003), and Jose Miguel Blanco(2005). Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pagan family, Oral history interview, audio recording. Subject The topic of the resource Interviews Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Oral history Description An account of the resource A transcription of the oral history interview conducted with members of the Pagan family, including Christopher and Angeles. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview conducted on January 30, 2024. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history (digital audio file) https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/228044ef52831de321711c7f80689cb6.pdf?Expires=1774483200&Signature=kbcWe96Wg4kNk4uzFzysdBwCT79b452AmuxebZ7s2RSvxUvmsRpC1npvO70Npq%7EjVXWkr5M3w5PFrmj26LheahKM79dwZwucUx0vHxRcvKkMnyR1wsjpsFwvasIsT1RbZix8b%7EUvuuJ7pUex0gn4ppET1rxi7viVFPtCACoq0SI0seeZSYJztpTHNFXS20SPJB4bhGP1nJ9gH-ikUCMRlSu-viAmcEHO-FPDS0POdezuVhyMLcwB13DH1O9r3yzdd8VLcKSrFHjn24oJ6D6kUTG411iCC7xS2cjS8ltJeh9gfzzbLWS8G-Ju%7EADTzwSdaXd-yeL5RJOx3IcL8v4S%7Eg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7638f7799838a3a2d6a8888cf94dd76d PDF Text Text Edwin Duroy This conversation was recorded on Friday, October 7th, 2022. SUMMARY KEYWORDS Fires in Hoboken, lack of prosecution, gentrification, deliver vacant, racism, destruction, violence, neglect, accountability, victim blaming, helplessness Chris: Were you born in Hoboken? Edwin: I was born in Puerto Rico but raised here mainly in Hoboken. Chris: Do you remember the fires? Edwin: It is a kind of an unresolved chapter in Hoboken's recent history. Given the fact that, nobody was ever prosecuted for, quite frankly for murder or anything along those lines. It it was the county prosecutor who also had a responsibility and the ultimate responsibility, and he just kind of, pooh poohed it. He said, oh, there are other fires. You know, poor people create fires, things like that. You know, when I mentioned, my thoughts begin with a fire on third and Jackson. I lived in the projects on third and Jackson, and there was a Food Town fire. I think it occurred in 1970 or 71. It was, again, a Food Town in the area. A supermarket for that particular area, midsize. But it serviced that whole western part of town. But as the demographics changed, more minorities, more Hispanics, more African Americans. I guess they thought they had to get out of the business. And so one night, you know, they lit it up. And, the fire department comes in and they say, oh, there's some faulty wiring. So, the insurance company didn't buy it. So the insurance company does their own investigation, and, you know, they find some accelerant on the other side of the building. So you have faulty wiring and then you have accelerant. Make a long story short, they make a connection with the family that owns the business with some guy that came out of Newark that was organized crime and there was an arrest made. The guy from Newark, had to go to court. He was a mess. He was a real nasty guy cursing the judge. And the reason I have some of those details, I have a small article about the time he was in court. He was very upset at the judge because the judge was Italian and he was Italian. So I have that little excerpt, that little article that apparently my father must have saved in his notes. I look at that, and I'm saying, wait a minute. They try to get away with arson for profit or whatever to deter this, and they weren't able to, but they weren't able to because of the insurance company. The insurance company did not accept the fire department and the police department, whoever else's, explanation. And so you fast forward, 5, 6 years down the line, and you start to see the fires. And, you know, it's kinda like an epithet that says, Hey, there was nobody there to stand up to, to question the fire department like that particular fire. No pun intended, it's really fueling the gentrification. What you have is the real estate community, pushing because they see an opportunity on their end. So they go to an owner of a tenement building and whatnot and say, well, we'll give you, 300,000 for your building, but if you empty it, we'll give you 400,000 and you can deliver it vacant. And so, the options that the owner has is, �telling people to leave. Some did offer them money to leave at a certain point and then, others, just kept saying no. I remember going into a building as a house commissioner once in a while, people would call. And I went to a building,I couldn't believe it. I thought the building was empty. It was in shambles. The landlord had taken a sledgehammer. It looked like the landlord or whoever, again, had taken a sledgehammer to the hallways. So I remember I had to step over these plaster boards to get to the door. And the fellow said, Yeah, somebody lives there. Knocked on the door. So sure enough, somebody opened up. I said, How can you live in this? He said, it wasn't like this, but, you know, we haven't been able to move and the landlord, in the middle of the night, you hear somebody with a hammer and this is what they've done. So, I mean, they did whatever they can to get a person out and then obviously the last, but not least was the fire. So, I mean, the real estate had their responsibility. The city had their responsibility to deal with fire codes, and they chose to neglect their responsibility. Again, I remember going in buildings, and I couldn't believe it. I mean, there was loose boards. I mean, one heavy person could have fallen through the floor. It was like that, and some of the doors were really not as secured as they're supposed to. The front doors, most of them, were broken. That's a violation. Chris: What were some of the other jobs you had in Hoboken? Edwin: I worked in the school system, but I was also a housing commissioner. At the age of 20, I came in as one of the youngest housing commissioners. And, so from 1970 to almost 1990, I was on the housing board. Again, that's a trustee position, nonpaid. But, in 1977, I became a coordinator in the school district for the bilingual program. And so that's where some of the kids that were killed were in the bilingual program, and we did have, like, fundraisers to help the families. But from the housing authority perspective, the housing authority kinda responded, not just because I intervened. And, whatever apartments that were available, they looked to accommodate the fire victims. Now there were some adjustments or approvals that were needed on the part of HUD because the apartments that were pretty much available were like 1 and at most 2 bedroom apartments. And a lot of the people that were displaced were families. So HUD had to give permission to Hoboken Housing Authority to allow them to come in, under the guise that it was temporary housing. Because you're not supposed to have, if you have a 1 bedroom, you're only supposed to have 2 people. If you have a 2 bedroom, you're only supposed to have, perhaps a couple and maybe 2 boys or 2 girls. But anything beyond that, would not be authorized. But, under the circumstances, the housing authority just tried to accommodate as many as we could, putting sometimes families in 1 and 2 bedroom apartments. The worst part was that it was rapid fire. From 1978, as we see it to 83, there were a lot of fires. People were killed, but there were a lot of people that were displaced, you know, and families that were displaced. The other thing was the affordable housing units. Units that were disappearing. Again, we tried to do what we could. But I recall one fire that, had moved up from the project. We moved up to 12th Street, and I recalled, getting called by the councilman passing by my house. I said, let's and I knew him because he sat on the housing authority as well as a commissioner. He says, you know, I need you to come with me to this fire 2 blocks away. And it was because a bunch of people were killed, and they were gonna bring the bodies out. And I was like, oh my god. It was on 11th and Willow, kinda right on the corner. And today, its a parking lot. I thought I read their looking into developing that now too. I think it's still a �parking lot, however. And, you know, that's when they, you know, they were bringing people out. And, you know, I was there. And a lot of these fires, I mean, they were able to determine where it started. A lot of it was started in hallways, and they kinda ran up. Edwin: Again, going to the issue of violation where the doors are open, where anybody can walk in and out, that's a city violation, a code violation. They were never enforced, especially for those buildings. What was disheartening a little is when I read, again, trying to blame the tenants or something about, there was a fire spotted by a tenant or a dispute by a tenant. Therefore, they all were painted, with the same brush, so to speak. Oh, well, those are the, you know, the tenants that do it themselves, which was not true. The one fire that was pretty, evident was the, was it the American Hotel? And, but the owner had been, that's definitely there was almost overwhelming where the owner was told, well, if you can empty it, we can get you more money. You know what? What comes to mind? Some of the feelings I had is helplessness. You know? I look back and I say, Jesus, what could have been done? I don't know. You know, I did a small part of what I was able to do, but, I really think that ultimately, I boiled it down, is that the prosecution part was a major part that has left a hole in the history. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Chris: Were you born in Hoboken? Edwin: I was born in Puerto Rico but raised here mainly in Hoboken. Chris: Do you remember the fires? Edwin: It is a kind of an unresolved chapter in Hoboken's recent history. Given the fact that, nobody was ever prosecuted for, quite frankly for murder or anything along those lines. It it was the county prosecutor who also had a responsibility and the ultimate responsibility, and he just kind of, pooh poohed it. He said, oh, there are other fires. You know, poor people create fires, things like that. You know, when I mentioned, my thoughts begin with a fire on third and Jackson. I lived in the projects on third and Jackson, and there was a Food Town fire. I think it occurred in 1970 or 71. It was, again, a Food Town in the area. A supermarket for that particular area, midsize. But it serviced that whole western part of town. But as the demographics changed, more minorities, more Hispanics, more African Americans. I guess they thought they had to get out of the business. And so one night, you know, they lit it up. And, the fire department comes in and they say, oh, there's some faulty wiring. So, the insurance company didn't buy it. So the insurance company does their own investigation, and, you know, they find some accelerant on the other side of the building. So you have faulty wiring and then you have accelerant. Make a long story short, they make a connection with the family that owns the business with some guy that came out of Newark that was organized crime and there was an arrest made. The guy from Newark, had to go to court. He was a mess. He was a real nasty guy cursing the judge. And the reason I have some of those details, I have a small article about the time he was in court. He was very upset at the judge because the judge was Italian and he was Italian. So I have that little excerpt, that little article that apparently my father must have saved in his notes. I look at that, and I'm saying, wait a minute. They try to get away with arson for profit or whatever to deter this, and they weren't able to, but they weren't able to because of the insurance company. The insurance company did not accept the fire department and the police department, whoever else's, explanation. And so you fast forward, 5, 6 years down the line, and you start to see the fires. And, you know, it's kinda like an epithet that says, Hey, there was nobody there to stand up to, to question the fire department like that particular fire. No pun intended, it's really fueling the gentrification. What you have is the real estate community, pushing because they see an opportunity on their end. So they go to an owner of a tenement building and whatnot and say, well, we'll give you, 300,000 for your building, but if you empty it, we'll give you 400,000 and you can deliver it vacant. And so, the options that the owner has is, telling people to leave. Some did offer them money to leave at a certain point and then, others, just kept saying no. I remember going into a building as a house commissioner once in a while, people would call. And I went to a building,I couldn't believe it. I thought the building was empty. It was in shambles. The landlord had taken a sledgehammer. It looked like the landlord or whoever, again, had taken a sledgehammer to the hallways. So I remember I had to step over these plaster boards to get to the door. And the fellow said, Yeah, somebody lives there. Knocked on the door. So sure enough, somebody opened up. I said, How can you live in this? He said, it wasn't like this, but, you know, we haven't been able to move and the landlord, in the middle of the night, you hear somebody with a hammer and this is what they've done. So, I mean, they did whatever they can to get a person out and then obviously the last, but not least was the fire. So, I mean, the real estate had their responsibility. The city had their responsibility to deal with fire codes, and they chose to neglect their responsibility. Again, I remember going in buildings, and I couldn't believe it. I mean, there was loose boards. I mean, one heavy person could have fallen through the floor. It was like that, and some of the doors were really not as secured as they're supposed to. The front doors, most of them, were broken. That's a violation. Chris: What were some of the other jobs you had in Hoboken? Edwin: I worked in the school system, but I was also a housing commissioner. At the age of 20, I came in as one of the youngest housing commissioners. And, so from 1970 to almost 1990, I was on the housing board. Again, that's a trustee position, nonpaid. But, in 1977, I became a coordinator in the school district for the bilingual program. And so that's where some of the kids that were killed were in the bilingual program, and we did have, like, fundraisers to help the families. But from the housing authority perspective, the housing authority kinda responded, not just because I intervened. And, whatever apartments that were available, they looked to accommodate the fire victims. Now there were some adjustments or approvals that were needed on the part of HUD because the apartments that were pretty much available were like 1 and at most 2 bedroom apartments. And a lot of the people that were displaced were families. So HUD had to give permission to Hoboken Housing Authority to allow them to come in, under the guise that it was temporary housing. Because you're not supposed to have, if you have a 1 bedroom, you're only supposed to have 2 people. If you have a 2 bedroom, you're only supposed to have, perhaps a couple and maybe 2 boys or 2 girls. But anything beyond that, would not be authorized. But, under the circumstances, the housing authority just tried to accommodate as many as we could, putting sometimes families in 1 and 2 bedroom apartments. The worst part was that it was rapid fire. From 1978, as we see it to 83, there were a lot of fires. People were killed, but there were a lot of people that were displaced, you know, and families that were displaced. The other thing was the affordable housing units. Units that were disappearing. Again, we tried to do what we could. But I recall one fire that, had moved up from the project. We moved up to 12th Street, and I recalled, getting called by the councilman passing by my house. I said, let's and I knew him because he sat on the housing authority as well as a commissioner. He says, you know, I need you to come with me to this fire 2 blocks away. And it was because a bunch of people were killed, and they were gonna bring the bodies out. And I was like, oh my god. It was on 11th and Willow, kinda right on the corner. And today, its a parking lot. I thought I read their looking into developing that now too. I think it's still a parking lot, however. And, you know, that's when they, you know, they were bringing people out. And, you know, I was there. And a lot of these fires, I mean, they were able to determine where it started. A lot of it was started in hallways, and they kinda ran up. Edwin: Again, going to the issue of violation where the doors are open, where anybody can walk in and out, that's a city violation, a code violation. They were never enforced, especially for those buildings. What was disheartening a little is when I read, again, trying to blame the tenants or something about, there was a fire spotted by a tenant or a dispute by a tenant. Therefore, they all were painted, with the same brush, so to speak. Oh, well, those are the, you know, the tenants that do it themselves, which was not true. The one fire that was pretty, evident was the, was it the American Hotel? And, but the owner had been, that's definitely there was almost overwhelming where the owner was told, well, if you can empty it, we can get you more money. You know what? What comes to mind? Some of the feelings I had is helplessness. You know? I look back and I say, Jesus, what could have been done? I don't know. You know, I did a small part of what I was able to do, but, I really think that ultimately, I boiled it down, is that the prosecution part was a major part that has left a hole in the history. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Christopher López. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dr. Edwin Duroy was born in Bayamon, Puerto Rico (1950). He was two years old when his family moved to Hoboken, New Jersey. He lived in Hoboken for fifty-two years, where he saw the transformation of the community and its gentrification including the arson fires of the 1970-1980s. He is a retired educator serving as a teacher, admin-istrator, and college professor. Dr. Duroy graduated from Jersey City State College, Montclair State College, and the University of Massachusetts Amherst. He resides with his wife Santa in South Amboy, New Jersey. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Edwin Duroy, Oral history interview transcription. Subject The topic of the resource Interviews Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Oral history Description An account of the resource A transcription of the oral history interview conducted with Edwin Duroy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview conducted on October 7, 2022. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history (transcription) displacement fire gentrification Hoboken Hoboken fires oral history Puerto Rican Puerto Rico racism https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/65595a6e2c0759c1382185cbbab0ff7d.mp3?Expires=1774483200&Signature=vUS10Hf9ZAtz87c4BJwFdC4Yko0DTrz%7Ew-2cPptPfp-iqVZbgnGYO4ySAhuZStnHHIHxEDfjRrdrswfvcuncXlFbU96g2zYtRoRmTpUSIDxDeqUostUwW5V34f0nQl9vvCdGOSJ2uvFH2EXGqwesnyE2UFWF6DNcziuod37zv9BvVzRvIayoqIN%7EWI99TUg89fQRtWZG%7EDu5wp2pDnL922pGckTCfCok-ndmNZ4qcJ3tSiorjnlbvdsbyk0faXgO9GqcPEnOZGRpxsajuR%7E7IFJua9c3QvhdLuSiKeaCozlhlEL4fw-tvHxTfgcDiESWrfhOHJhZg8gTvMO8jn23yg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 46f4f4f7de5c1a078096c11a88b05910 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Chris: Were you born in Hoboken? Edwin: I was born in Puerto Rico but raised here mainly in Hoboken. Chris: Do you remember the fires? Edwin: It is a kind of an unresolved chapter in Hoboken's recent history. Given the fact that, nobody was ever prosecuted for, quite frankly for murder or anything along those lines. It it was the county prosecutor who also had a responsibility and the ultimate responsibility, and he just kind of, pooh poohed it. He said, oh, there are other fires. You know, poor people create fires, things like that. You know, when I mentioned, my thoughts begin with a fire on third and Jackson. I lived in the projects on third and Jackson, and there was a Food Town fire. I think it occurred in 1970 or 71. It was, again, a Food Town in the area. A supermarket for that particular area, midsize. But it serviced that whole western part of town. But as the demographics changed, more minorities, more Hispanics, more African Americans. I guess they thought they had to get out of the business. And so one night, you know, they lit it up. And, the fire department comes in and they say, oh, there's some faulty wiring. So, the insurance company didn't buy it. So the insurance company does their own investigation, and, you know, they find some accelerant on the other side of the building. So you have faulty wiring and then you have accelerant. Make a long story short, they make a connection with the family that owns the business with some guy that came out of Newark that was organized crime and there was an arrest made. The guy from Newark, had to go to court. He was a mess. He was a real nasty guy cursing the judge. And the reason I have some of those details, I have a small article about the time he was in court. He was very upset at the judge because the judge was Italian and he was Italian. So I have that little excerpt, that little article that apparently my father must have saved in his notes. I look at that, and I'm saying, wait a minute. They try to get away with arson for profit or whatever to deter this, and they weren't able to, but they weren't able to because of the insurance company. The insurance company did not accept the fire department and the police department, whoever else's, explanation. And so you fast forward, 5, 6 years down the line, and you start to see the fires. And, you know, it's kinda like an epithet that says, Hey, there was nobody there to stand up to, to question the fire department like that particular fire. No pun intended, it's really fueling the gentrification. What you have is the real estate community, pushing because they see an opportunity on their end. So they go to an owner of a tenement building and whatnot and say, well, we'll give you, 300,000 for your building, but if you empty it, we'll give you 400,000 and you can deliver it vacant. And so, the options that the owner has is, telling people to leave. Some did offer them money to leave at a certain point and then, others, just kept saying no. I remember going into a building as a house commissioner once in a while, people would call. And I went to a building,I couldn't believe it. I thought the building was empty. It was in shambles. The landlord had taken a sledgehammer. It looked like the landlord or whoever, again, had taken a sledgehammer to the hallways. So I remember I had to step over these plaster boards to get to the door. And the fellow said, Yeah, somebody lives there. Knocked on the door. So sure enough, somebody opened up. I said, How can you live in this? He said, it wasn't like this, but, you know, we haven't been able to move and the landlord, in the middle of the night, you hear somebody with a hammer and this is what they've done. So, I mean, they did whatever they can to get a person out and then obviously the last, but not least was the fire. So, I mean, the real estate had their responsibility. The city had their responsibility to deal with fire codes, and they chose to neglect their responsibility. Again, I remember going in buildings, and I couldn't believe it. I mean, there was loose boards. I mean, one heavy person could have fallen through the floor. It was like that, and some of the doors were really not as secured as they're supposed to. The front doors, most of them, were broken. That's a violation. Chris: What were some of the other jobs you had in Hoboken? Edwin: I worked in the school system, but I was also a housing commissioner. At the age of 20, I came in as one of the youngest housing commissioners. And, so from 1970 to almost 1990, I was on the housing board. Again, that's a trustee position, nonpaid. But, in 1977, I became a coordinator in the school district for the bilingual program. And so that's where some of the kids that were killed were in the bilingual program, and we did have, like, fundraisers to help the families. But from the housing authority perspective, the housing authority kinda responded, not just because I intervened. And, whatever apartments that were available, they looked to accommodate the fire victims. Now there were some adjustments or approvals that were needed on the part of HUD because the apartments that were pretty much available were like 1 and at most 2 bedroom apartments. And a lot of the people that were displaced were families. So HUD had to give permission to Hoboken Housing Authority to allow them to come in, under the guise that it was temporary housing. Because you're not supposed to have, if you have a 1 bedroom, you're only supposed to have 2 people. If you have a 2 bedroom, you're only supposed to have, perhaps a couple and maybe 2 boys or 2 girls. But anything beyond that, would not be authorized. But, under the circumstances, the housing authority just tried to accommodate as many as we could, putting sometimes families in 1 and 2 bedroom apartments. The worst part was that it was rapid fire. From 1978, as we see it to 83, there were a lot of fires. People were killed, but there were a lot of people that were displaced, you know, and families that were displaced. The other thing was the affordable housing units. Units that were disappearing. Again, we tried to do what we could. But I recall one fire that, had moved up from the project. We moved up to 12th Street, and I recalled, getting called by the councilman passing by my house. I said, let's and I knew him because he sat on the housing authority as well as a commissioner. He says, you know, I need you to come with me to this fire 2 blocks away. And it was because a bunch of people were killed, and they were gonna bring the bodies out. And I was like, oh my god. It was on 11th and Willow, kinda right on the corner. And today, its a parking lot. I thought I read their looking into developing that now too. I think it's still a parking lot, however. And, you know, that's when they, you know, they were bringing people out. And, you know, I was there. And a lot of these fires, I mean, they were able to determine where it started. A lot of it was started in hallways, and they kinda ran up. Edwin: Again, going to the issue of violation where the doors are open, where anybody can walk in and out, that's a city violation, a code violation. They were never enforced, especially for those buildings. What was disheartening a little is when I read, again, trying to blame the tenants or something about, there was a fire spotted by a tenant or a dispute by a tenant. Therefore, they all were painted, with the same brush, so to speak. Oh, well, those are the, you know, the tenants that do it themselves, which was not true. The one fire that was pretty, evident was the, was it the American Hotel? And, but the owner had been, that's definitely there was almost overwhelming where the owner was told, well, if you can empty it, we can get you more money. You know what? What comes to mind? Some of the feelings I had is helplessness. You know? I look back and I say, Jesus, what could have been done? I don't know. You know, I did a small part of what I was able to do, but, I really think that ultimately, I boiled it down, is that the prosecution part was a major part that has left a hole in the history. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Christopher López. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dr. Edwin Duroy was born in Bayamon, Puerto Rico (1950). He was two years old when his family moved to Hoboken, New Jersey. He lived in Hoboken for fifty-two years, where he saw the transformation of the community and its gentrification including the arson fires of the 1970-1980s. He is a retired educator serving as a teacher, admin-istrator, and college professor. Dr. Duroy graduated from Jersey City State College, Montclair State College, and the University of Massachusetts Amherst. He resides with his wife Santa in South Amboy, New Jersey. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Edwin Duroy, Oral history interview, audio recording. Subject The topic of the resource Interviews Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Oral history Description An account of the resource The digital audio recording of the oral history interview conducted with Edwin Duroy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview conducted on October 2, 2022 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history (digital audio file) displacement fire gentrification Hoboken Hoboken fires oral history Puerto Rican Puerto Rico racism https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/2ca67705fcbf57b16eb2e12f43272a6e.docx?Expires=1774483200&Signature=sJS3cXrEB9PeR3AabkF47xGdECvP7OwO8K5-BJDxtkSLE4MV6xWs-BLNBtSe9l5y471yNR-lxw2i8sS-IuUtUuEvIgt%7E3xPdMJbqpkxjwihCTZXIIoibUqx0IhLBGjv%7EXwPsuu8PcCluN48%7EhGdK93PNhvd7rZDh-HOer8QjBLC1j9tU7jGxwLGhbXNTSDmnht8ed1K3UMeJ1kv-Ntlp1V2S84aQqqu9n0-5m0m%7EZIQTjqyuhqBBeQVA5zMIhF8RjVXC%7EPHHeGdd5P0aUTpnEwNGdC06sp8uRCaPysm6-8-wIskS3yHLUMrGjhUkCw5-se9VP1kifIqm8NPn%7E1QVkg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM c67af1dfdf6e36409aa55e9c87f519b6 PDF Text Text 22-5-7_INTRW_Aresnio Vega_220507_FINAL.mp3 This conversation was recorded on Father’s Day, Saturday, March 7th, 2022 Keywords: Puerto Rico, All together, fire, sadness, searching, mourn, unanswered, death. Arsenio: [00:00:00] And then he came, my father, he was in Puerto Rico. He came I had to pick him up in a at at the airport. Arsenio: [00:00:10] He say, that was Friday. I don't know if for some reason, when you die that day, don't make a difference where you go. My father came from Puerto Rico, and I want him to stay until Saturday because I used to work early in the morning. Well, he I don't know why it's so anxious to to go over there because, he told me, hey, I wanna see my daughter, I wanna see my daughter. By, I say by 10 o'clock. 9 or 10. I tell him, okay, get dressed, I take you over there. That was Friday. By 4 o'clock in the morning, she was there with the other one. I don't know if it's part of our life. You know? Well, they were I never see a fight between my sister and her husband. You know? And the kids, I used to go over there and the kids used to jump on me, and say, uncle, uncle, uncle! I say Friday, take my father to my sister's apartment. Right? Friday, about 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock. And I come we come back. By 4 o'clock, a friend of mine, my cousin, he used to have a girlfriend over there. He called me. There was a fire in the building, but I don't know if no. Because every every week where there is a fire, where, there's a lot of people living here. And then we went over there early in the morning about 5 o'clock in the morning. And the building, the fire is, was off. The fire, then, who was there? They didn't they don't find. By 6, 7 o'clock, they can find nobody. By 9, 10 o'clock, they tell us where they find the family. Altogether in one of the rooms upstairs because they live in the fifth floor. Miriam: [00:00:08] A puesta con puesta de me cuñada, vivía un familia. Y esa muchacha era novia de un primo de el. Entonces, nosotros enteramos por ese fuego a las seis de la mañana. El primo del me llamó porque yo no podría creer. Me dijo, Miriam por favor es la verdad. El building donde Annie vive esta encendida en fuego. Hablé con la mama de ellos y me dijo Miriam es verdad. Yo dejé la nena aquí con una �muchacha y nos arrancamos por allá. Ya cuando fuimos, el building había quemado completo. Arsenio: [00:03:33] Well, the hard part of that is they told me they, I have to go to the morgue to identify them. And then, it was sad part because they got I remember it was 14 altogether. My family of 6. Jeannette: [00:04:00] Our's was 7? Arsenio: [00:04:00] Another family in the second floor was 4. And 3 more. I think there was between 12 14 people in there. Jeannette: [00:04:12] El tuyo fue siete. Arsenio: [00:04:12] I had to go. And then they got everything together, you know, in a small room. And you have to go 1 by 1, taking this cover and find out who it was. I have to identify 1 by 1. They got one over here, one over there. They put, they wasn't together. Jeannette: [00:04:37] Tu estuviste solo? Arsenio: [00:04:42] No. I had to help with my cousin. What she say, you know, you don't allow her to go inside.Part of our family, they allow me to go in there, but not her. Usually, I am they never, got, like, they died from smoke. Only my father and my brother-in-law, got a little, you know, burned, but nobody really was, you know, had big burns. In my family and the other family, they got one guy that's completely burned. But, I've think that the police, in that time, they don't care about nothing there. Because it wasn't after that, it was more fires. For a whole year, it was fires all over in Hoboken. I don't know. So they got some version that people would say that they wanna build condominiums. And that's what they did. They did it. A five story building they built 5 condominiums. Maybe they're gonna sell the house within that time because $60,000. If they got sell 5 apartment, they triple the price. Jeannette: [00:06:39] Probably 10 or 15 years after the fact, you know, when I was a little bit older, and I was very curious because I was only 8 years old. You know, my �sister and I were very young. I remember going to the library and getting as much as I could from all from the Hoboken library, you know, what was in the newspapers and stuff. It's like when somebody passes away, right, you mourn, you go through that. But when somebody passed away in in the degree like this, there's a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of, a lot of questions where, you know, there had to be somebody at fault. And then to kind of relive the fact that, hey, it was foul play. It was something that was done so wrong, you know, it was purposely done because I think that everybody could attest that 99% it was done on purpose. It was not something that was an accident. And you know and look right now we can't we know that we're not gonna get an answer as to why. We're not gonna get that. So trying to get that, it's not gonna be what we want. But to be able to say, what you said, to at least somebody's you know, my aunt and my cousins and my uncle, my grandfather didn't die with, you know, just a random clip in the newspaper. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Arsenio: [00:00:00] And then he came, my father, he was in Puerto Rico. He came I had to pick him up in a at at the airport. Arsenio: [00:00:10] He say, that was Friday. I don't know if for some reason, when you die that day, don't make a difference where you go. My father came from Puerto Rico, and I want him to stay until Saturday because I used to work early in the morning. Well, he I don't know why it's so anxious to to go over there because, he told me, hey, I wanna see my daughter, I wanna see my daughter. By, I say by 10 o'clock. 9 or 10. I tell him, okay, get dressed, I take you over there. That was Friday. By 4 o'clock in the morning, she was there with the other one. I don't know if it's part of our life. You know? Well, they were I never see a fight between my sister and her husband. You know? And the kids, I used to go over there and the kids used to jump on me, and say, uncle, uncle, uncle! I say Friday, take my father to my sister's apartment. Right? Friday, about 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock. And I come we come back. By 4 o'clock, a friend of mine, my cousin, he used to have a girlfriend over there. He called me. There was a fire in the building, but I don't know if no. Because every every week where there is a fire, where, there's a lot of people living here. And then we went over there early in the morning about 5 o'clock in the morning. And the building, the fire is, was off. The fire, then, who was there? They didn't they don't find. By 6, 7 o'clock, they can find nobody. By 9, 10 o'clock, they tell us where they find the family. Altogether in one of the rooms upstairs because they live in the fifth floor. Miriam: [00:00:08] A puesta con puesta de me cuñada, vivía un familia. Y esa muchacha era novia de un primo de el. Entonces, nosotros enteramos por ese fuego a las seis de la mañana. El primo del me llamó porque yo no podría creer. Me dijo, Miriam por favor es la verdad. El building donde Annie vive esta encendida en fuego. Hablé con la mama de ellos y me dijo Miriam es verdad. Yo dejé la nena aquí con una muchacha y nos arrancamos por allá. Ya cuando fuimos, el building había quemado completo. Arsenio: [00:03:33] Well, the hard part of that is they told me they, I have to go to the morgue to identify them. And then, it was sad part because they got I remember it was 14 altogether. My family of 6. Jeannette: [00:04:00] Our's was 7? Arsenio: [00:04:00] Another family in the second floor was 4. And 3 more. I think there was between 12 14 people in there. Jeannette: [00:04:12] El tuyo fue siete. Arsenio: [00:04:12] I had to go. And then they got everything together, you know, in a small room. And you have to go 1 by 1, taking this cover and find out who it was. I have to identify 1 by 1. They got one over here, one over there. They put, they wasn't together. Jeannette: [00:04:37] Tu estuviste solo? Arsenio: [00:04:42] No. I had to help with my cousin. What she say, you know, you don't allow her to go inside.Part of our family, they allow me to go in there, but not her. Usually, I am they never, got, like, they died from smoke. Only my father and my brother-in-law, got a little, you know, burned, but nobody really was, you know, had big burns. In my family and the other family, they got one guy that's completely burned. But, I've think that the police, in that time, they don't care about nothing there. Because it wasn't after that, it was more fires. For a whole year, it was fires all over in Hoboken. I don't know. So they got some version that people would say that they wanna build condominiums. And that's what they did. They did it. A five story building they built 5 condominiums. Maybe they're gonna sell the house within that time because $60,000. If they got sell 5 apartment, they triple the price. Jeannette: [00:06:39] Probably 10 or 15 years after the fact, you know, when I was a little bit older, and I was very curious because I was only 8 years old. You know, my sister and I were very young. I remember going to the library and getting as much as I could from all from the Hoboken library, you know, what was in the newspapers and stuff. It's like when somebody passes away, right, you mourn, you go through that. But when somebody passed away in in the degree like this, there's a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of, a lot of questions where, you know, there had to be somebody at fault. And then to kind of relive the fact that, hey, it was foul play. It was something that was done so wrong, you know, it was purposely done because I think that everybody could attest that 99% it was done on purpose. It was not something that was an accident. And you know and look right now we can't we know that we're not gonna get an answer as to why. We're not gonna get that. So trying to get that, it's not gonna be what we want. But to be able to say, what you said, to at least somebody's you know, my aunt and my cousins and my uncle, my grandfather didn't die with, you know, just a random clip in the newspaper. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Aresnio Vega, Oral history interview transcription Subject The topic of the resource Interviews Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Oral history Description An account of the resource A transcription of the oral history interview conducted with Aresnio Vega. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview conducted on Father’s Day, Saturday, March 7th, 2022 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history (transcription) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1980s https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/cd8fb6712892d119ba80fe831334a498.mp3?Expires=1774483200&Signature=H%7EGZ-Aiv2IUNWZMCl9ECg9HukUWBezYM2dKv9iVJsL-1XXd6HY-FefMnXGH9p6u-Xjxbgg2tPzMlB7Ipt1to9uWS%7EJscArpOYEWJK37Z9QGqbbAzqfQnOP1g8kE9gHxE5A58YwUIBPs81Bjeydgvw4TRB5ySSxd6c2t03W55U7FV5xxjH-GC7i0%7E%7ErOc6PJetLe541l3rK8wCMR9kx0PUNmuENzr8XI5D3nnTrjRd3F3eQjZuU0NjIwk6czPgzeB4m8cnmKNGugltUb13WeV1scUNu6kFcj1vucraqxr0N2Gce1CwsoHMKK7sRAMgtU25-DfzgKVHb7Vg1yAfAnxzg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM feaeeb80fbe1da4f2ca72fb5c11e6375 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 192 kbit/s Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Arsenio: [00:00:00] And then he came, my father, he was in Puerto Rico. He came I had to pick him up in a at at the airport. Arsenio: [00:00:10] He say, that was Friday. I don't know if for some reason, when you die that day, don't make a difference where you go. My father came from Puerto Rico, and I want him to stay until Saturday because I used to work early in the morning. Well, he I don't know why it's so anxious to to go over there because, he told me, hey, I wanna see my daughter, I wanna see my daughter. By, I say by 10 o'clock. 9 or 10. I tell him, okay, get dressed, I take you over there. That was Friday. By 4 o'clock in the morning, she was there with the other one. I don't know if it's part of our life. You know? Well, they were I never see a fight between my sister and her husband. You know? And the kids, I used to go over there and the kids used to jump on me, and say, uncle, uncle, uncle! I say Friday, take my father to my sister's apartment. Right? Friday, about 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock. And I come we come back. By 4 o'clock, a friend of mine, my cousin, he used to have a girlfriend over there. He called me. There was a fire in the building, but I don't know if no. Because every every week where there is a fire, where, there's a lot of people living here. And then we went over there early in the morning about 5 o'clock in the morning. And the building, the fire is, was off. The fire, then, who was there? They didn't they don't find. By 6, 7 o'clock, they can find nobody. By 9, 10 o'clock, they tell us where they find the family. Altogether in one of the rooms upstairs because they live in the fifth floor. Miriam: [00:00:08] A puesta con puesta de me cuñada, vivía un familia. Y esa muchacha era novia de un primo de el. Entonces, nosotros enteramos por ese fuego a las seis de la mañana. El primo del me llamó porque yo no podría creer. Me dijo, Miriam por favor es la verdad. El building donde Annie vive esta encendida en fuego. Hablé con la mama de ellos y me dijo Miriam es verdad. Yo dejé la nena aquí con una muchacha y nos arrancamos por allá. Ya cuando fuimos, el building había quemado completo. Arsenio: [00:03:33] Well, the hard part of that is they told me they, I have to go to the morgue to identify them. And then, it was sad part because they got I remember it was 14 altogether. My family of 6. Jeannette: [00:04:00] Our's was 7? Arsenio: [00:04:00] Another family in the second floor was 4. And 3 more. I think there was between 12 14 people in there. Jeannette: [00:04:12] El tuyo fue siete. Arsenio: [00:04:12] I had to go. And then they got everything together, you know, in a small room. And you have to go 1 by 1, taking this cover and find out who it was. I have to identify 1 by 1. They got one over here, one over there. They put, they wasn't together. Jeannette: [00:04:37] Tu estuviste solo? Arsenio: [00:04:42] No. I had to help with my cousin. What she say, you know, you don't allow her to go inside.Part of our family, they allow me to go in there, but not her. Usually, I am they never, got, like, they died from smoke. Only my father and my brother-in-law, got a little, you know, burned, but nobody really was, you know, had big burns. In my family and the other family, they got one guy that's completely burned. But, I've think that the police, in that time, they don't care about nothing there. Because it wasn't after that, it was more fires. For a whole year, it was fires all over in Hoboken. I don't know. So they got some version that people would say that they wanna build condominiums. And that's what they did. They did it. A five story building they built 5 condominiums. Maybe they're gonna sell the house within that time because $60,000. If they got sell 5 apartment, they triple the price. Jeannette: [00:06:39] Probably 10 or 15 years after the fact, you know, when I was a little bit older, and I was very curious because I was only 8 years old. You know, my sister and I were very young. I remember going to the library and getting as much as I could from all from the Hoboken library, you know, what was in the newspapers and stuff. It's like when somebody passes away, right, you mourn, you go through that. But when somebody passed away in in the degree like this, there's a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of, a lot of questions where, you know, there had to be somebody at fault. And then to kind of relive the fact that, hey, it was foul play. It was something that was done so wrong, you know, it was purposely done because I think that everybody could attest that 99% it was done on purpose. It was not something that was an accident. And you know and look right now we can't we know that we're not gonna get an answer as to why. We're not gonna get that. So trying to get that, it's not gonna be what we want. But to be able to say, what you said, to at least somebody's you know, my aunt and my cousins and my uncle, my grandfather didn't die with, you know, just a random clip in the newspaper. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:08:00 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Aresnio Vega, Oral history interview and audio recording. Subject The topic of the resource Interviews Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Oral history Description An account of the resource The digital audio recording of the oral history interview conducted with Aresnio Vega. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history (digital audio file) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1980s Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview conducted on Father’s Day, Saturday, March 7th, 2022 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/86056/archive/files/0d7467df680580060913e16b59722b71.pdf?Expires=1774483200&Signature=hKvEWIgbOKSgJzHPkdECoofxy%7EakRJXfIDftqalCV2jmvDB1EVieUCGlUIIsgqo73vY9Vee00c5uiCbr1g2JMtm9auSZ%7Esd9KLmd1q8eqBBT1G3bzyzPMZpwCraop3CAhRU6xfZqJw0qOEH0xg3DgAQAIIi8S3Dr0R92wOW-TBJYU8A26myGyy-Cbxz8wdSWtst1sp3DdG-DvEmmC0%7EnKmJjDtYsfd9UIjDZIq1Sk6avxEgAXZUeocR3EiGYKOuuvAXPN7-T0LA2sNAj7HRBCo1FR4FQtVabWLpB-6UHoCZOzCtu62rAZhKLR0rtZHcDxoTgbNRSnFO2EoqcKYUO8w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 448b06380d2aa8fa1bdc03285acb7862 PDF Text Text Ana Mercado-Vega was killed in an arson fire on October 25, 1981 at 1200 Washington Street, El Dorado building. She died along with her father Manuel, husband Goduvin, and their four children, Ruth (14), Denise (12), Walter (10), and Kenneth (9). Some weeks before her death Ana had begun organizing tenants in her building to form a night watch to guard against arsonists. She and her family were sent to be interned back home in lsabela, Puerto Rico. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories by Christopher Lopez Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ana Mercado Biography Subject The topic of the resource Puerto Ricans--New Jersey Description An account of the resource Ana Mercado Biography Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Christopher López. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Courtesy of Christopher López. Copyright held by Christopher López. Restrictions are only in regards to publication; any researcher may view or copy any document in the collection. Note that the written permission of the copyright owners and/or other rights holders (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF